Sunday, August 24, 2008

Beware of Meir Shitrit

Shitrit is running for head of Kadima, and part of his platform is:
recognizing Syrian sovereignty over the Golan Heights

At least he's out in the open, admitting it now. We've had too many surprised here in Israel. At least Shitrit admits that he's willing to give the Golan away.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

Off topic, but how you respond if the Israeli government made the following offer to you:

"The Americans are pressuring us to destroy settlements, both maachazim and (in the long run) the bigger ones too, to remove checkpoints, and to generally transfer power to the Palestinian Authority in any way possible. We are not so enthusiastic about this, but we can't take the diplomatic risk of opposing it. So we are forced into a confrontation with you that is not in any of our interests. There is just one way to avoid this situation. Why don't you renounce your Israeli citizenship and declare yourself a resident of the State of Judea or whatever other name you come up with. Then you can build all the maachazim you want, and patrol and keep order in the West Bank however you want. And we won't do a thing to interfere, as we can then tell the US it's none of our business, it's an internal affair between the Palestinians and the "Judeans", the State of Israel not being involved at all. You wouldn't be able to vote in Israeli elections of course, but you know your vote accomplishes little anyway so not much would be lost. The State of Israel would establish its border at the separation fence, but the areas beyond it would not necessarily be non-Jewish: it would be up to you to establish whatever degree of control you could. Israel could provide some degree of covert military support to help in this task. This would compensate for a lack of direct protection from the IDF. Some orderly mechanism for transfer from Israeli to non-Israeli citizenship and vice versa would be set up, for people who want to move in either direction. What do you think?"

Batya said...

not so simple

Israel needs our males as soldiers and officers. The IDF would collapse without them at this point. You'd be amazed.

Also, as I've told even some of the most distinguished journalists who've come to interview me:
"I don't answer theoretical questions."

goyisherebbe said...

Shlomo,
I agree with Batya's response, but I feel a need to amplify it. Batya may not agree with all of my points, but that's all right.
First, the Israeli government would never acquiesce to such an idea, let alone suggest it. A sovereign state must have a monopoly on foreign and defense policy. The Shabak does its best, using various dirty tricks, to discredit and undermine all organization in the direction of the "State of Judea".
Secondly, there are more sinister elements in the Left which are attempting to undermine Israel itself. Fortunately some of them, such as Uri Davis, who just converted to Islam, are coming out into the open. Maybe Yossi Beilin will be next? I hope he likes the nice Arab folkways. Like how do you do netilat yadayim? With an axe. (Have to know Hebrew to get that one.)
As Yair Lapid pointed out, the purpose of the Expulsion was to "get" the religious Jews at all costs, even if it endangers the existence of Israel and the welfare of the Jewish people. This is the same rationale as Kastner (see the book Perfidy by Ben Hecht and the website of Francisco Gil-White, www.hirhome.com) and the "holy cannon" attack on the Altalena masterminded by Ben-Gurion and commanded by Rabin. The leftist establishment destroyed the Kahane family and decimated other families considered dangerous to their ideology. Oslo was also about this.
Disengaging from the state of Israel would be just what they want you to do. Potential soldiers who would be well-equipped and trained would instead become bands of ineffective guerrillas which could be slaughtered without the Israeli government feeling the need to take responsibility. The loss of the right to vote in Israeli elections may not seem like much now, but as the public loses faith in the system, the system will have to change radically. The internal Jewish demography is moving toward a frum majority in the not too distant future. We must not lose our golden opportunity to replace the establishment of the state rather than opt out and be slaughtered or thrown into prison camps. If you don't feel like doing political activism like Jewish Leadership, fine. Join the people of Chabad, Breslav, Machon Meir, Rosh Yehudi, Maayanei Yeshua, Shofar (Rav Amnon Yitzhak) etc. and reach out to your fellow Jews. Those of you who are still in golus, get over here, be counted and join the revolution. Rav Aharon Kotler zt"l said that America is the last golus. America and the western world are now a spiritual graveyard. Western civilization is committing slow suicide by low birthrate. If you think you can save your family in the long run by being frum in golus, you are deluding yourself. The future is here.

Anonymous said...

"Israel needs our males as soldiers and officers. The IDF would collapse without them at this point. You'd be amazed."

That may be true in regard to the dati leumi community as a whole, but the large majority of them would not be covered by this plan. If you recall, the so called proposed "realignment" was supposed to expel "only" 70k people from their homes. That's out of 200k+ "settlers" overall, plus hundreds of thousands more on the other side of the "Green Line". So the relative effect on the IDF would be minimal, especially since they would have less to do once the "Judeans" took over their tasks in Yesha.

"I don't answer theoretical questions."

If you would seriously consider such a question, it might not remain theoretical.

======
"First, the Israeli government would never acquiesce to such an idea, let alone suggest it. A sovereign state must have a monopoly on foreign and defense policy."

Not relevant once the areas under discussion are defined as being outside the state. And to be honest, the state doesn't necessarily have to agree to it up front. I hear in the yishuv Yitzhar, they don't let soldiers in, they defend themselves from Arabs, and you can be sure that few of their kids enlist anymore. That is basically what I'm suggesting. Just do it everywhere instead of in one little place, and make everyone aware what is going on, and at some point formalize what will have become the status quo. The benefits for us are obvious. I only phrased it as a government initiative to make the point that it benefits them too, even though obviously some people would resist it.

"Secondly, there are more sinister elements in the Left which are attempting to undermine Israel itself."

All the better to be free of their influence.

"Potential soldiers who would be well-equipped and trained would instead become bands of ineffective guerrillas"

What value is an well-organized military when it never, NEVER, performs the tasks it is capable of performing? A non-Israeli Jewish militia would not have those political limitations. And you're about the only person in the world today who thinks guerilla warfare is ineffective.

"slaughtered without the Israeli government feeling the need to take responsibility"

As if the Israeli government, right now, takes responsibility!

"The internal Jewish demography is moving toward a frum majority in the not too distant future."

Let's be more precise: a charedi majority. They were part of the government that carried out the "disengagement". No, you aren't going to win anything there. They are not on your side.

"If you don't feel like doing political activism like Jewish Leadership, fine."

I would do it if it had any chance of accomplishing anything! As you yourself say, the leftist establishment is controlling things in Israel and good luck beating them at their own game. Better to change the playing field and win there.

"Western civilization is committing slow suicide by low birthrate."

This is off topic but... nowadays Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and several other Arab countries have a lower birthrate than Israel (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html). So it's not just the western world at all...

"Rav Aharon Kotler zt"l said that America is the last golus... If you think you can save your family in the long run by being frum in golus, you are deluding yourself."

It seems to me you chose a bad example here, seeing how R' Kotler chose to build his yeshiva and community in Lakewood... in golus of course. I personally don't live in golus, if you were wondering. In this I feel that I'm going against what R' Kotler would have suggested for me, but what can I do, my rav disagrees.

Anonymous said...

One more thing: this cannot wait until after the next "peace" agreement is concluded. By then it will be too late. We have to make it known loud and clear on the national and international level that the government does not speak for us, we do not benefit from it and are not beholden to it, so none of its decisions are binding on us. If this is done in response to a current event, it will be seen as a gimmick and not be taken seriously. Therefore, it has to be done long ahead of time and must be reinforced by concrete action, including renouncing citizenship and hopefully obtaining a formal declaration of status from the government, and in any case beginning concrete security measures as befits people who are no longer part of the state. If the "State of Judea" is attempted by a few plotting underground cells, as has been the case so far, the shabak will run it into the ground. If it is done in broad daylight by entire yishuvim, one at a time or all at once, then nothing can stop it.

Batya said...

Thanks, goyish'
shlomo, there is no "state of Yehuda," and I see no signs of it besides comments to my blogs.
I live in the real world. I trust niether Moetzet YESHA nor the "orange."

Anonymous said...

As I said, it already exists. In a very limited way. It could become much more significant. But that would require taking the initiative instead of whining, which I see some people are hesitant to do :)

Batya said...

Olmert claimed it would be done in less than a year and that date has long passed.

I'm not overconfident. I just don't trust anyone to lead.