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Sunday, December 5, 2010

U.S. Jews: FDR versus Sarah Palin

I'm taking a break from my fire in the Carmel posts.  The fire is now smoldering rather than raging, and there's an odor of rain to come, G-d willing.

I don't think much of the political judgment of American Jewry.  Most are still loyally (religiously) pro-Democrats  more faithfully and devotedly than they are observant of Jewish religious law.  The percentage of Jews who vote Republican is lower than those who intermarry, marry non-Jews.  They worship the memory of FDR, Franklin Delano Roosevelt who was elected United States President for an unprecedented and never to be repeated (since it is now against the law) four terms.

For some incomprehensible (to me) reason they think that Roosevelt felt an affinity to Jews.  That is in direct conflict with the fact that FDR closed the gates to Jews fleeing Nazi Germany. Remember the St. Louis!  FDR also neglected to order the American armed forces to do anything to stop the murder of Jews in concentration camps or bomb the train tracks on which Jews were transported.  And that's all after Jews were forbidden from studying and working with others and then evicted from their homes and forced into crowded ghettos.  U.S. Franklin Delano Roosevelt didn't care, not did his fellow Democrats, or anybody important and influencial in the United States of America.  The United States didn't enter the war in Europe to save Jews.  The end of the death camps was an unintended result, a bonus, when the Nazis were defeated.

But the "elite" of American Jewry would rather eat lobsters on Yom Kippur than support Sarah Palin.  Actually they're incredulous about the traitors in their midst, educated academic American Jews who do support Palin.

Sarah Palin certainly isn't perfect, but considering all, is there a "perfect" politician of any political party?


yoni said...

"Sarah Palin certainly isn't perfect, but considering all, is there a "perfect" politician of any political party?"

is this supposed to be some kind of endorsement? is that the best that can be said of her?

i myself, torah observant (i like to think), would rather eat lobster on yom kippur than support such an obvious moron merely because she claims (remember she has no actual authority yet, so it means nothing) to support israel's right to exist and defend itself (like, duh) and a few other political "talking points". would you support ANYONE who speaks nicely about israel, no matter how obviously ridiculous they sound on all other matters? even if they were, chas v'shalom, retarded?

because if so, you are not interested in truth, or religion, but rather politics and business, and zie gezhunt, but be honest about it. the torah itself does not allow retarded people to be leaders (among various other handicaps). sarah palin is not only stupid, she's seen that way by almost the entire world- and not because she supports us with the "offerings of her words". she is, genuinely, intellectually impaired. this is who you would like representing us?

yoni said...

i'd be interested in how you feel about pamela gellar- an obvious loony who happens to be correct about some issues having to do with islamism (by accident, maybe, but more probably because it gets her more press, like palin.) anyone can tell she needs her meds changed drastically. would you side with her in public? come on, out with it- how do you really feel?

Batya said...

yoni, whom do you support? I don't vote in American elections, and I've switched parties here in Israel many times.
I don't see the Democrats supporting Israel strongly over the Arabs. Carter was always a rabid antisemite. I recently spoke to someone who is researching his presidency and read his diaries, chilling is the nicest word I can think of.
If it's between Palin and Obama or a Carter, I'd prefer her.

I don't know anything about Geller.

Anonymous said...


break out the lobster. ;)

Going to be so sweet to see Palin stick it in the eye of a world that hates her.

Meir said...

Avoiding any policy-oriented discussion ...

That's a pretty silly article you're linking to. Why would anyone with an ounce of knowledge be incredulous about Bill Kristol or John Podhoretz supporting a Republican? It would be news if they said they were drawing the line at Sarah.

As for Mr. Lipsky, he's not as well known but some searching reveals that nobody should be surprised by his like of Palin.

Senator Lieberman is obviously hard to categorize (particularly because he's not been particularly pro-settlement, given his standing by Salam Fayyad's state-building activities. That being said, he was actively among the 22% of U.S. Jews supporting the Republican in 2008, so he's not all that good of an example that Palin will attract educated Jews.


Mr. Korn was unbelievably sloppy in his research. Ronald Reagan's percentage of the vote in 1980 was #4 in elections from 1916 onward (which is all that data exists for http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html)
in terms of percentage of the Jewish vote going to the Republican (the Republicans in 1916, 1920 and Eisenhower in 1956 doing better)

Batya said...

One never knows

violet said...

Batya, if you're happy to hear an American politician say good things about Israel, I cannot blame you. Obama is screwing up badly in foreign affairs. However, please do not get your hopes up about Palin's chances. She is not a serious person. She likes the money and the attention, but when the going gets tough, she quits.

Also, I doubt the Republicans will let her stay in the game. They've already fired shots across the bow (Barbara Bush, Joe Scarborough). In response, she mocked Reagan and the Bush family. That was not wise.

Batya said...

Violet, I should have blogged more generally about the two political parties. Concentrating on Palin confused people. The American Jewish worship of FDR and the Democrats isn't logical.

violet said...

I suspect Wikileaks will weaken Jewish loyalty to the Democratic Party a bit. The last two Democratic nominees, Obama and Kerry, both look foolish with regard to their policies on Israel.

If I were an unconflicted Democrat, I'd be praying for Palin to stay in the race until the convention. She's bad news for the Republicans.

Batya said...

Carter's unabashed antisemitism didn't wisen American Jews, nor have the revelations about FDR. It's an irrational fixation, the American Jewish attachment and loyalty to the Democrats.
And about Palin, I rememeber the early mocking of Ronnie Regan by the media etc. In the end he had the last laugh.

Shy Guy said...

I hope I'll have time later today to post why what Yoni wrote here is mostly nonsense and gibberish.

In the meantime, it was relevant just to state that.

And, no, I do not worship Palin and I hope someone more capable gets the conservative nod to run for the presidency.

Batya said...

Shy, thanks!

yoni said...

batya, who do i support? well, a: nobody's running yet, and b: i've never voted in an american election and have no plans to start now. i just snipe from the sidelines, using "nonsense and gibberish" to get an actual discussion going on a blog that i like, run by a person/neighbor that i like, that i happen to see as usually being full of tedious mutual admiration/backslapping in the comments dept.

shy guy: "nonsense and gibberish"? maybe so, maybe so. but i'd be interested to see you try to make the case that palin has anything other than looks, ambition, and just enough intelligence to leverage those into power, by hiring people to feed her talking points. i'm certainly not saying she is "wrong" about israel, rather that she doesn''t actually know anything about it herself, and just "sockpuppets" whatever her advisors tell her will win her the most support, or the most powerful supporters, or whatever. here's some gibberish: the woman barely knows how to read, and was a major embarrasment to her past presidential running mate, john mccain, who said so to so many people (after the elections, of course) that i don't even feel the need to post the links. she is an EMBARRASMENT and i don't care how much she loves us, or claims to love us, the prez. of the u.s. needs to be on the ball on a lot more issues than israel- and she doesn't even have this going for her, rather a willingness to mouth platitudes which sound nice to us, beleagured as we are, but are useless when it comes to realpolitik. and i don't trust her to "do as she says", anymore than i trusted sharon or bibi. compared to her, g.w. bush was a scholar. that is a frightening concept.

i admit, of course, that being a scholar is not a requirement for the position, nor will it make one a better president- just look at obama, who is, actually, something of a scholar but is obviously in over his head and doing serious damage to us and the world- all with scholarly good intentions of course. but a basic grade school understanding of the world and it's history and politics is kind of a bottom line thing for a president, and she doesn't have this, and everyone knows it, and it's easily shown by asking her simple questions without advisors present. besides this, she's a quitter, and no one on the left OR the right has any respect for her at all. so, thanks but no thanks.

Daniel said...

quite a few ad hominems, don't you think. Of course considering the current president , I don't think we should be calling anyone morons.
As to "retarded people" , I suppose you are referring o her baby. But just like we don't have children of gentile mothers as our leaders Yoni, we shouldn't have "retards" either.
I wonder what is more retarded, needing a teleprompter to speak to third grades , or being able to continue a speech even after the telepromptor malfunctions

Batya said...

Yoni, Obama is far less qualified than Palin. Someone is controling him, while Palin is the "rogue."

As Daniel wrote, Obama can't wing it without a teleprompter. That makes me really nervous.

As a mother of five, I can identify with Palin. The Republican party is too male chauvenist to value what she could be for them. By playing dirty tricks against her they're just choreographing their next loss.

Daniel, I agree.

yoni said...

daniel: "As to "retarded people" , I suppose you are referring o her baby."

chas v'shalom! sorry to see that you can't read, either. her daughter isn't gunning for president. if she were, yes, i would object under the same criteria.

obama's problem isn't that he's a moron. we could talk all day about what his problem is, and probably find much to agree about, but that ain't it.

yoni said...

"Obama is far less qualified than Palin."

batya, i didn't want to turn this into a pissing contest between obama and palin. i don't like either of them, but for very different reasons.

in terms of "qualifications", they both are pretty lame in terms of experience, i don't see how palin is better "qualified". i don't see either of them as being qualified. re: obama- he's flat out lying about being a friend of israel. re: palin, i don't think she even knows what that means. who is worse? who cares?

Daniel said...

it's not too complicated. American Jews aren't stupid or naive. They are not waiting for you to come to America to give talks to convince them that they are wrong. Even if you spoke for free,and gave food, only 5% would show up and that would be the choir. OK you might get a few more percent to become more pro Israel and vote the party that is more supportive.
Unfortunately the real problem is most don't care. Even if FDR could come up from hell and speak to America's Jews and tell us that he intentionally didn't bomb the lines to Auschwitz, and that his quote that he felt theGerman Jews deserved what they got was true, most Jews would not care . They would say " the New Deal was more important than saving Jews".
You basically answered your own query by noting that more Jews intermarry than vote Republican. Jewish Jews are the minority in America. The only reason that things are any better than in FDR's time is the influx of highly commuted Jews during and after Shoah. They have given numbers and succor to the tiny minority or "pre war Batya 's"!
Let's face it generation after generation we face calamities, and the Dathan and Edith Steins disappear or assimilate, while the uber-Jews survive. During the expulsion, only 50% left. The rest stayed on as good Catholics ( yes there was a TINY number of Marranos ), but the uber Jews left. Unfortunately the opposite happened in eastern Europe. Those most predisposed to having gentile grandchildren, ignoring a Holocaust, or supporting an anti Semite, or worshipping abortion clinics, came and the uber Jews perished. Yes there are exceptions. A few yeshivas were built yada yada, but the post war orthodoxy makes the pre war seem minuscule. We are still paying the price for what population statisticians call "founder effect", and it will eventually change as more of the FRD/King Hussein supporters continue having gentile children.
BTW, I was around a few weeks ago visiting my son. We took a settlement tour by ourselves, but stopped at Tapuach junction. We planned to go another day via Jerusalem but didn't have the time. maybe next time.

Daniel said...

I guess things have to be spelt out for you. My comment on your use of the offensive pejorative " retard" was an attempt to give you a chance to apologize for your offensive language. Our president had to apologize for it, I am shocked that you not only would have used it , but use it for a woman that has a Down's child is repulsive. I as a parent of an autistic child am also deeply offended.
People often make verbal gaffes because they don't think before they speak. There is no excuse for a written gaffe..And as Michael Kinsley wrote, a gaffe is when someone tells the truth.

yoni said...

ok, daniel. as someone who spent 4 summers working with the learning disabled, and came to truly love and appreciate them as people, i apologize for my "verbal gaffe".

the term "retarded" is technically correct, like "negro", or "moron" for instance, but it is not i who decides what a verbal gaffe is, i guess you see that as your job. i again apologize to anyone i may have offended by my use of the word "retarded". and especially to all the yid settlers and "children of gentile mothers".

:) hope you can take a joke, daniel. i really meant the apology part. i herby renounce the term retarded and promise henceforth never to use it again. b'li neder.

nice verbal slight of hand, btw. way to stick to the real issues.

Batya said...

Daniel, do you vote in the USA? I'm glad I don't. Choosing whom to vote for would be even worse than here.
Yoni, truce, how about a Shabbat meal by us?

yoni said...

batya, thanks for the invitation. i'll call you. and, no truce necessary, i got nothing against anyone here. our opinions about the people "out there" may differ, and i always thought that's what made blog commenting fun. nobody's paying me to do this, you know. although shabbos lunch sounds nice. :)

Daniel said...

as someone who spent 4 summers working with the learning disabled....
Sounds like " some of my best friends....." +

the term "retarded" is technically correct
Actually the term when used technically means someone with an IQ less than 70. Now we can joke about the intelligence of politicians , but none have an IQ in that range. In fact FYI many Downs children have higher than that, and Rose Kennedy had an IQ of 90 which is in the range of normal.++

but it is not i who decides what a verbal gaffe is, i guess you see that as your job
It is far from my job. Actually I'll defer to the President of the United States on this one. When he used the same pejorative as you, he had to make a public apology. Say what you want about him, but at least he was able to show some humility.#

Daniel said...

I vote but my boychik who is in Israel for the year( who generally makes me seem like a limp wristed lib) didn't . I would advise you to vote since that is what pols care about, and if the dead can vote , we need all the American settlers to compensate. You should invite him for Shabbat.

yoni said...

daniel, your reading skills again come into question. i DID make a public apology, very clearly, and then again for emphasis. that you didn't see this and continue to berate and lecture me on the subject (which, as i mentioned, i have some professional experience in) is simply wrong, morally and jewishly. now it's your turn to apologize (unless you REALLY can't read, in which case i'm sorry for discussing your re...learning disability in public). i'm not out to humiliate anyone here, least of all someone as sensitive as you obviously are re: insulting people based on your perception of their intelligence level.

Batya said...

Daniel, have your son contact us.
Yoni, lunch sounds great.

yoni said...

btw, senor daniel: it wasn't "the president of the united states" job to determine what a verbal gaffe was. he was the one who made said gaffe. it was people like you who pointed it out to him and he apologized to them- as did i.

one responsibility the president DOESN'T have is deciding what's "politically" (or linguistically- see g.w. bush) correct. he has plenty of people, like you, to do that for him. he merely has to navigate the course you provide for him. as i am trying to do. what you are trying is my patience.

yoni said...

just ran across this, from 3 days ago. i hope you'll agree that the washington post is not, editorially speaking, a "left wing" newspaper. thought your readers might be interested.

as i was saying, the american right has no respect for palin, either, the w.post. being happy to publish this. which is not a bad analysis, imo, and doesn't "offensively" reference her lack of education or intilligence, as i apparently did.


Anonymous said...

You're just chock full of ad hominems today. I suppose that I could respond in kind. However I was once young and callow so instead I'll put it in perpective.


Batya said...

Yoni, one thing about Palin you haven't caught. The Republicans are terrified of her. She's rogue, can't be controlled. As a natural-born non-conformist, I get a real kick out of it. This lady, grandmother, mother of five, with the figure a 17 year old model would kill for has those Bushies scared out of their pin-striped wits.

yoni said...

batya, i appreciate the "rebel" in you that appreciates the "rebel" in sarah palin. i just think yours is real, and hers is fake.

yoni said...

daniel, very nice (ad homimum) apology. i'll try to see it positively: "oh, yoni is young and callow and should be forgiven for his foolish ways."

thank you for your understanding and forgiveness (i'm 47 years old, but still, i guess, young and callow. i suppose i should take this as a compliment from someone, like yourself, who never (chas v'shalom) stoops to ad homimem. :)

Batya said...

Thanks, yoni, I guess I've always been "unconventional" in my own way, rather repititious I guess.

Anonymous said...

I was neither apologizing nor forgiving. I have nothing to apologize for and your callow ad hominems are not forgivable.
I find it interesting that you claim to have spent 4 summers working with the learning disabled. I have spent 21 years with a child that you would casually call a retard. I am also a founding member and charter member of the nations largest Friendship Circle. I am sure you are familiar with this organization since you spent four summers working with the learning disabled.
The Friendship Circle received much good pr last year when Palin praised it on her Facebook page. I have seen several hundred teen volunteers over the last decade, and if "retard" had been part of their vocabulary prior to their efforts, the maturity and empathy they have achieved surely made that word vanish from their lexicon on their first day. Oh ,I am sure one of them occasionally makes a faux pas , but knowing these volunteers , they would immediately apologize without snide, sarcastic condescension. And they would never willfully put something so disparaging in writing.
Are you interested in volunteering or starting a new chapter? There is always room for more help. You can google it if you are interested.

yoni said...

oy. he's still going on about this and now he wants me to work for him too. i thought this blog was (among other things) a refuge from "political correctness".

i never used the word "retard", even in quotes, until just now, though you have many times at this post. in spite of my aversion to being told what is "politically correct" speech, i apologized sincerely and made a public neder. you don't buy it, you're glued to your soapbox. fine. now can we get on with our lives?

yoni said...

you know, i just popped back here to see if anyone had commented and re-read one of daniels longer posts above (having nothing to do with our disagreement) and i couldn't help noticing his use of the terms "jewish jews" and "uber-jews", as something he admires and/or identifies with. he also uses the term "marrano", apparently unaware of how offensive this is to the people it describes. this, combined with his earlier comment about "children of gentile mothers" made me think: why did i treat him so gently when he tried to lecture me about politically correct speech? this is some kind of jewish brown shirt hiding behind an autistic child and some experience with the learning disabled which made him some kind of "macher" in his own mind. a sick person, far from politically correct but actually some kind of facist, lecturing me about politically correct speech. a shanda! i hope he comes back, and i hope batya allows me the freedom to say what i really think about hypocritical trash like this.

yoni said...

fwiw: could be fun reading for a comment section that, as i said, usually consists of mutual admiration. :)

Batya said...

Yoni, chicken for lunch suit you?