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Monday, August 22, 2011

What's Christianity?

My mind (CPA's daughter) generally goes to "the bottom line," the essence of the issue, story etc.

While many people I know went to yesterday's Glenn Beck Evangelical Extravaganza and plan on going to his Jerusalem one on Wednesday, I've stayed away.  I follow the psak, Jewish religious judgment of the rabbis of Jewish Israel and my local Shiloh Rabbi HaRav Elchanan Bin-Nun who consider Glenn Beck and other self-professed pro-Israel Christian Zionists to have an agenda that goes against the basic principles of Judaism.

Let's just check out something very simple.  What is the very basis, principle of Christianity?
"Belief in Jesus Christ and following Him in a personal relationship is the central principle under which all others come." Read more
Contrast that to the opening of the Ten Commandments, which Christians claim to follow:

א וַיְדַבֵּר אֱלֹהִים, אֵת כָּל-הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה לֵאמֹר. {ס} 1 And God spoke all these words, saying: {S}
ב אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר הוֹצֵאתִיךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים: לֹא-יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, עַל-פָּנָי. 2 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
ג לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה, אֲשֶׁר בַּשָּׁמַיִם מִמַּעַל, וַאֲשֶׁר בָּאָרֶץ מִתָּחַת--וַאֲשֶׁר בַּמַּיִם, מִתַּחַת לָאָרֶץ. 3 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
ד לֹא-תִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה לָהֶם, וְלֹא תָעָבְדֵם: כִּי אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֵל קַנָּא--פֹּקֵד עֲו‍ֹן אָבֹת עַל-בָּנִים עַל-שִׁלֵּשִׁים וְעַל-רִבֵּעִים, לְשֹׂנְאָי. 4 thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;
ה וְעֹשֶׂה חֶסֶד, לַאֲלָפִים--לְאֹהֲבַי, וּלְשֹׁמְרֵי מִצְו‍ֹתָי. {ס} 5 and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments. {S}
Over the two thousand years, since Christianity had been invented, its aim has been the destruction of Judaism, identity theft.  For most of that time, the method was violent, such as the Crusades, the Inquisition, forcing Jews into restrictive ghettos and the European, Christian-supported Holocaust.  In recent decades, since the establishment of the State of Israel, Christians of all sects and stripes have tried something new, "love."  They cleverly, like the חכם chacham Yonadav who told King David's son Amnon how he could seduce his sister Tamar,  realized that the Jewish People post-Holocaust feel unloved by the nations of the world.  All the Christians have to do is profess love and donate money, and Jews will enthusiastically follow them.

Jewish survival defies all logic and makes a mockery of the entire Christian theology.  Remember that Christians call their bible "the New Testament" and have latched it onto the Jewish Bible.  They claim to be the "continuation" adopting parts of Jewish History.  But their fundamental belief in a dead human being goes against the most basic principle of Judaism:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."
There is a Biblical, theological alternative to non-Jews who want to follow G-d's Laws.  It's called the Seven Noahide Laws.


not a goy said...

Yes indeed. Xtianity is a different religion, with its own beliefs. They are indeed different than ours. So what? Yes, it's a bizarre mixture of Torah and fantasy. So what? It baffles me how this is so threatening to you? Why? Do you know any Torah believing Jews who have converted to this ridiculousness? I really think it would be more prudent to worry about the quislings BB and Barak, who are selling out Israel and groveling before the Ishmaelites.

Devash said...

not a goy, because the TORAH SAYS to oppose it. If you're not a goy, then act like a Jew and do what Hashem commands be done. These matters are not left up to our own individual opinions or gut feelings.

If you are in doubt what the TORAH SAYS about it, you are welcome to read the many blogposts at Tomer Devorah for a rundown on the subject.

Batya said...

"nag," I wouldn't mind a totally separate religion, but they've highjacked the Jewish Bible and history perverting and distorting them.
Devash, correct, thanks

Devash said...

PS - I'd just like to add that it is not an either/or situation. Would you say to ignore rockets from Lebanon because we have enough rockets falling from Gaza to occupy us? It is a war on two fronts - Eisavian rightists and Yishmaeli leftists - and both must be fought at the same time. Pick a battle and get busy, but don't use your time to discourage the people who are fighting.

Anonymous said...

what batya has written is very correct and thats from me, a xt for the first half of my life and now thank G-d a noahide. 'not a goy' wrote, do you know any torah believing jews who have converted. go to Rabbi Tovia singer and ask him, he answers to xtianity, just how many innocent jews who do not come from orthodox back grounds have been beguiled, and why is there messianic xtians to there. it is still xtianity. how many non jews and non orthodox jews or messianic jews will have their wrong paths confirmed when they see so many orth jews give this guy so much publicity.

Anonymous said...

There is a lot of problem with your definition of Christianity, but I am confident that at the appointed time Hashem will straighten out all misunderstandings.

However my fear and prayer is that before that time comes you (Tomer and others) will never reach that point where you pick up weapons to defend Hashem against Christians !

The rabbinic consolation/afterthought called Noahid is fascinating to say the least ! Why would Hashem go to great length to FORCE Jonah to go to goy Nineveh.

The moschiac is going to SHOCK the whole world but the Jews are going to be more shocked than everyone else !!

Anonymous said...

anonymous, no one ever wrote that jews should not reach out to non jews. in fact jews are told by Hashem to be a light to all nations, to teach us the 7 laws etc. He also told you all NOT to be snared by the ways of those living around you. Hashem wants to save all of us, and HE has given specific ways to do that. those who feel HIS way is outdated and in line with modern technology, so be it. as it is written. i n the path you wish to go Hashem will lead you.
i stand corrected if i am wrong, but i have read that Rashi's teacher, Rabbi Gershom, a famous torah scholar, his son had converted to xtianity and died a xtian. need i say more on this issue.
i also remember reading a year or two ago, how a palestinian who had converted to judaism, he and his whole family and lived an orthodox life for over 6 years, yet he drove his own brother on a sucide mission.6 years he fooled everyone . and then he showed his colors. there are many good xtians, many good hindus and people of other faith, who live in ignorance. but missionaries always had an agenda.

Anonymous said...

those who feel HIS way is outdated and in line with modern technology, so be it. as it is written. i n the path you wish to go Hashem will lead you.

typo error above, should be, 'those who feel HIS way is outdated and NOT in line with modern technology....

sorry and thanks.

Batya said...

Devash, there are so many fronts to our battles that nobody must fight on all. Share the burden, right?

a's? are you all the same?
Until you find some way of identifying yourself/yourselves I can't respond or relate to anything written under the "name Anonymous"

Please delete and repost.

Devash said...

About being a "light to the nations." Some people erroneously think this means we are supposed to be Jewish missionaries going into the whole world and trying to convince all the goyim to become Noahides at the least and even Jews! Nothing could be further from the truth. There is no mitzva to be a "light to the nations." It's not a commandment. It is a statement of FACT. When Am Yisrael is dwelling in their own land creating and living a Torah society, the world will observe and imitate our good ways. We are like a city on a hill surrounded by darkness and those within that darkness are attracted to the shining light of the vibrant city. The "light" does not go anywhere, it simply shines out. The other mistaken idea comes from xianity's errors. Naturally, those within that false system will relate to the only thing they've ever known---the missionary mandate called The Great Commission.

To the xian who commented. It is you who will be shocked. Yeshu is dead and he's never coming back. And our righteous Mashiach will order the deaths of all those idolaters who refuse to leave our Holy Land. He will also destroy all the foreign places of worship. Prepare for it. It won't be long in coming.

Just Shu said...

I live in Ariel and there was an Email that went around on the Dati email list basically saying that if there is someone like Glenn Beck, who is willing to publicly back Israel and Shomron, than it is important for people to go and support it.
So my wife and a few friends went, and they said it was nice, and not preachy but a lot about how the Jews are the apple of G-ds eye, and the only people to hold true to his words over the past few thousand years.

Anonymous said...

@ Davash
Hashem's tanach (NOT Jewish tanach) was given to the Jews for transmission to all of mankind !
Israel is a nation of priests, but priest to who ? to themselves ?

It is INCONSISTENT with Hashem's character to punish a people for idol worship when idolatry is all they have ever known and no Jew has ever told them about Hashem because Jews do not proselytize. There are many (huge number) of tribes and cultures in history that never had any contact with Jews to see the "light to the nations" Yet these people are also important to Hashem !

Beside why bother sending Jonah to Nineveh and even go to great length to force him when he refused ? It shows the Ninevehs are as important to Hashem as the Jew.

The coming maschiac will be Hashem's messenger to all of mankind and his dominion will be worldwide "sea to sea" not just a parcel of land in the middle east !

The next temple will NOT be a Jewish temple but Hashem's house of prayer for all nations !

Devash said...


First of all, “The Creator’s Tanakh” and the “Jewish Tanakh” are one and the same. The Torah was not given over for “transmission” to anyone except the descendants of those to whom it was entrusted. It is meant to be lived, not taught. The teaching is only a means to an end - the education of Jews for the performance of mitzvot; not an end in itself – the transmission of information for the sake of knowing. It is actually forbidden to teach Torah to gentiles except for the bare minimum that they need to keep their sheva mitzvot Bnai Noach.

You ask “priests to who?” To the Creator of the World, of course. We serve HIM, not the nations of the world. The Tanakh teaches that the creation itself proclaims the existence of the Creator. Avraham Avinu was himself raised in an idolatrous household, but he came to the knowledge of the Truth without benefit of an emissary. HaKadosh Baruch Hu has promised that He will reveal Himself and the ultimate truth to anyone willing to pay the price of personal sacrifice – “You will seek Me and find [Me] if you will seek Me with all your heart.” (Yirmiyahu 29:13) Also, many converts testify to the fact that the truth is out there for anyone who is interested in finding it. Many people have found their way to Judaism without benefit of a personal encounter with a Jew. And how much more so today with all the information available in books and on the internet!

No one would say that the gentile nations are not loved and cared for by the Creator, but they are not the center of the universe. They are G-d’s creatures, but ONLY YISRAEL are His children.

The coming Mashiach is coming for the Jews, just as the Jewish prophets foretold and just as the Jews have been praying for the last few millennia. Those gentiles who survive the cut will benefit from the life of the messianic era, but it is not for or about them. In fact, according to Jewish sources, the entire world will become Eretz Yisrael and the righteous gentiles will be an appendage to Yisrael. They will no longer have any independent identity.

Bayit Shlishi will be like Bayit Rishon and Bayit Sheini in that it is primarily for Jews. Gentiles are allowed to make their sacrifices anywhere, but the Jew may only bring his offerings to the Holy Temple. A gentile may send an offering to the Temple, but he cannot stand in the same place as a Jew. “A House of Prayer for all Nations” is a very misunderstood concept. It means simply that the People of Israel is made up of people from every nation and is open to accept converts from every nation.

Devash said...

I repeat: The idea that the Jews have a mission to go the gentiles and spread the Jewish "gospel" to the whole world is an assimilated xian concept. The Jews' job in this world is to perform mitzvot in order to rectify and bring perfection to the world.

There is NO MITZVA - no obligation - to go to the gentiles. If they come to us, there is halacha for how to respond.

Anonymous said...


I just want to know how you justify writing G-d's names in Hebrew, and claiming to follow Torah.

Second, it is fine to agree with good points that people make, even if they have an ulterior motive. For instance, when a pushy salesman makes good points, I simply say, "You're right, but I'm not buying." And then I smile and walk away.

If Beck would try to convert me, I'd say, "Glenn, let's just agree on the other stuff, but I'm not converting today."


Keliata said...

In the 1970s cults were a big thing in the US. One of their tactics was to "love bomb" the person they wanted to lure into their cults. Another ploy was to expose the person to lengthy rallies and lectures.

Batya said...

Just Shu, if Glenn Beck really thinks "Jews are the apple of G-ds eye, and the only people to hold true to his words over the past few thousand years," then how can he continue to follow a religion that is in direct opposition? The same goes for all the Christians who claim that we Jews are "so special and right."

If that's what they believe then they should be Noahide or Jewish. Since they haven't rejected Christianity, then they're just lying about what they think of Jews.

Batya said...

Keli, that's a fantastic point, thanks.

Devash said...

Jews are friers for falling for this. I can't stand it when people reply, "But they say..." "They" lie!! It's a soul-winning tactic and everything is permitted!

Quote: ‎"...Beck's cultivation of Israeli leaders follows, step by step, the instructions Christian Zionists have used to gain access to Jewish communities and leaders. One of the most popular of these manuals is the 2001 book, "Your People Shall Be My People," by Don Finto. Finto's network of evangelists is encouraging churches around the world to "bless Israel" by supporting Messianic Jewish ministries and proselytizing Jews. His book has been promoted internationally, including by directors of Hagee's CUFI.

Finto's book provides instructions to: 1 ) avoid overt proselytizing, 2 ) vocally repent of the Holocaust, 3 ) tell Jews that Christian Zionist support is modeled after the biblical story of Ruth with no strings attached, and 4 ) emphasize that Christian Zionists are Israel's only friends in an increasingly hostile world."

With friends like Glenn Beck...

Batya said...

Devash, sadly true.

Beckie said...

The opposition on this blog to GB is just moral retardation; and I mean that literally. How pathetic you are and what a chillul Hashem to be so prejudiced against someone who feels called to support your sorry selves. Woe onto you. May Gd give you the sechel, you so obviously lack and open your eyes to your true enemies.

Batya said...

Beckie, I don't have to approve Jews cheering at Christian religious events. I want the true G-d's approval, not Beck's nor yours.

Keli Ata said...

Thank you very much, Batya:)

Beckie said...


Batya, Keli Ata....time to make teshuva girls.

Batya said...

Beckie, who in the world are you to give us orders about teshuva? I choose my own rabbi as instructed in the Mishne and he's not you!

Beckie said...


What kind of Yiddishkeit do you subscribe to? EVERY Jew (including me) must constantly make teshuva. Perhaps you need a new rabbi if you have not been instructed properly. You could definitely use some chassidus, IMHO. Gd bless you.

Batya said...

Beckie, I suggest you try yiddishkeit untainted by worship of friendly christians.

Beckie said...



Do you actually have any Xtian friends? Is their blood not pure enough for you? What a profound bigot you are. It is not "worship" to respect and admire a sincere friend. You are the biggest chillul Hashem. You don't represent observant Jews (for all you non-Jews here).

Batya said...

Beckie, I don't know who you are but what you are is obvious. Your language is unacceptable. It reflects badly on yourself.