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Sunday, August 21, 2011

Jewish Activists, Get off those Beck buses

Posted by Jewish Israel

The Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), which regularly televises shows targeting Jews for conversion in Israel ,will not only be broadcasting Beck's events tonight and on 8/24, but TBN executives and broadcasters Matthew and Laurie Crouch will be televising a special pre- show event from Caesarea.

These in-your-face missionaries will be joined by Glenn Beck, John Hagee and David Barton – at least that's what the promotions and programming schedules say.

Just how bad is TBN? Please view these recent video excerpts of the Crouch clan who have been busy broadcasting in Israel these past several days. Rick Ridding, a nephew to TBN's founder Paul Crouch, is responsible for last week's Elav messianic happening for Israeli Youth.

Jewish Israel will have a full report on Beck's "Uber-Christian event" very soon, but one wonders how any Orthodox rabbi or Torah observant activist can, with good conscience, board those buses tonight.

27 comments:

Peace, Quiet, Joy said...

How deep have we fallen that we look to the Mormons now to feel better about ourselves as a nation? It would be a better idea for every Jewish woman to connect to Hashem in her own backyard or porch and pray that we will wake up from this very bad dream soon and our Land and dignity will be returned to us.

Ellen said...

We definitely need to turn inwards and act like dignified Jews who can ensure the spiritual integrity of Eretz Yisrael. But I have a tough time blaming the Mormons or evangelical Christians for our behavior. It's we who have to learn to say "no" to this "hebraic roots" and "messianic" shenanigans which our own leaders and activists are encouraging. We have very good Gentile friends who would happily support us if we would show some self-respect and hold our spiritual gound and borders.

Keli Ata said...

I'm really glad I don't have cable TV anymore. The local on air xtian network doesn't carry TBN. It would be painful to watch this Beck courage show, and I would be tempted to watch.

Hagee is also involved in this? Pet peeve but when Hagee says Israel lives! in English... it sounds extremely awkward in Enligh. It only sound proper and comfortable in Hebrew. Then again, Am Israel Chai is on of the first things I learned to say in Hebrew so it will always sound odd in any language other than Hebrew.



Perplexing...Reform Jews and the more mainstream liturgical gentiles would find such missionary activity deeply offensive. From the Reform Jews I've talked to missionary activity isn't acceptable. They seem to have more of a live and let live attitude with the mainstream churches. An the same appears true among these liberal churches.

I'd much rather see Beck and Hagee and their supporters get involved in a Mitzvah Day projeect than than this missionary festival.

Batya said...

Ellen, thanks for posting this. As I wrote earlier, The Shiloh Chief Rabbi Elchanan Bin-Nun stated that it is forbidden to attend the Glenn Beck events.

ellen said...

Keli Ata, I think a non-belief in Jesus is the last line of defense for many unaffiliated Reform and secular Jews. Jewish monotheism defines them. If they have nothing else, they have the Sh'ma and a fierce aversion to idolatry. Actually it's pretty amazing that when all tradition, learning and rituals are squeezed out of a Jew, they still hold fast to one G-d.

I think a lot of mainstream gentiles are comfortable and secure with a respectful distance between faith communities. That sounds normal and healthy to me.

Anonymous said...

I am sick to the stomach with these (and other) missionaries.
They must be outlawed.





Batmalka

Anonymous said...

I happen to come across this website by chance and read your comments. I saw the show tonight and I can understand your concerns. I believe that it was all meant for a message to be sent that the American people support what the bible says, in that Israel is God's chosen nation. We as a people support you, and because we believe, as you do, in the bible, and what it says in the old testament. Christians do not want dissension, we want you to know that we love Israel and the people of Israel because we love the God of Abraham too. I do not understand why it was Glenn Beck who was the leader in this, but I did like the fact that statements were made in support of you and Israel as a nation.

If we both believe in this, why so much hate? Isn't there enough strife and hate in this world? We should join together as sisters and brothers in Adonai. My love for Israel is strong. It breaks my heart to read such anger.

Shy Guy said...

Dear Anonymous christian,

Read the article. See if you can figure out what the source is for all the Jewish animosity you're reading here.

Play the devil's advocate.

BTW, if you believed in the Torah, you would:

1. Never call it the "Old Testament".

2. Never be christian.

You aren't even aware of the most elementary contradictions in what you wrote.

I write this with the sincerest of interest in your response. Thanks.

Also, give yourself a unique forum name. We have enough anonymouses here to fill a jumbo jet.

not a goy said...

Dear Anonymous Xtian,

I apologize for the paranoia of my fellow Jews on this and other blogs. I do believe they are in the minority. I understand that you have another religion than ours and I respect your religion, the way it is practiced by evangelicals. Unlike most (I surmise) here, I actually have close evangelical friends of several decades..three families actually, and I'm an orthodox Jew. Yes, I know Xtians would love me to convert. That is a tenant of your faith. There's no chance that I ever will. But we can appreciate each other, in friendship and fight our common enemy...Islam.

Batya said...

nag, "paranoia?" when you admit that you know they're out to convert us... get real

YMedad said...

The information in this post is

a) wrong;

b) argues via guilt by association;

c) exhibits total misunderstanding of the needs of the state of Israel;

d) twists reality.

shame, really.

Chayma said...

anonymous

But we can appreciate each other, in friendship and fight our common enemy...Islam.

Your common enemy Islam doesn't know defeat, it has the hand of God behind it. As promised, and as history has proven, all our enemies fall.

When nato nuclear power obliterates Israel (if it takes on Islam), you can sit and dream over the irradiated mass, that your failed battle will bring about.

PS. I could ask you a million questions, like why the heaviest influence on your own religion has been Islam. Your codification of the Talmud is something you took from us.

YMedad said...

Chayma:

"Your codification of the Talmud is something you took from us"

really? Islam poppped out of Muhammed's desert visions in that cave at Mt. Hira around 610.

Talmudic codification was finished by 500 and began many centuries earlier.

and btw, "busses" are kisses. headline should be changed.

Ellen said...

YMedad,

Did you see the TBN adverts for the Beck events in Caesarea and Jerusalem?

Are you saying that Glenn Beck did not have an arrangement with TBN to televise his event?

Are you saying that TBN is not missionizing in Israel?

Perhaps the "Busses" was a freudian slip.

Jewish Israel has posted our impressions of last night's event.
http://jewishisrael.ning.com/

Chayma said...

YMedad

really? Islam poppped out of Muhammed's desert visions in that cave at Mt. Hira around 610.

No. Islam was there since Adam and before his fall from grace to earth. That is why Islam recognises all the Monotheism’s since Adam.

I'll tell what did pop out of a desert vision, and that was the false 'prophet' (Paul of Tarsus)who led much of humanity to paganism and idolatry. That dubious honour came from your lineage and not from Islam.


*

Talmudic codification was finished by 500 and began many centuries earlier.


Great Rabbis of the Muslim Empire
by Dr. Ezra Chwat, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1999/1/Great%20Rabbis%20of%20the%20Muslim%20Empire

The cultural cross-pollination benefited both sides. Because of the dialogue with Islam, the Jews became more aware of their philosophic and linguistic heritage.

The new methods that developed in the vast Muslim Empire for the communication of knowledge and the codification of law were employed by the Rabbis in order to keep in contact with the ever-expanding Jewish Diaspora. Thus, they could preserve and sustain Talmudic Law, while creating new vistas of Jewish literature and thought which were instrumental in forming the structure of Judaism as it is today.

Codification

Yet, ironically, as the influence of the Babylonian academies spread, it became clear that the Talmud was simply too vast to transmit. To address this problem, the Geonim employed a technique newly developed in the Muslim world: codification.
Of the innovations that the rabbinic world inherited from the Muslim empire, this probably had the greatest impact.


Maimonides completed A-Siraj (The Beacon - clarification), his commentary on the Mishna, before he was 20. Written in Arabic, it is essentially a summary of the Talmudic understanding of the Mishna the primary code of halacha, codified in the Land of Israel in the third century.

Chayma said...

YMedad

I just looked at your profile, it says's you work in "Education".

Ummm, I would have expected you to have known that, then. I don't mean to offend why I ask, is that an indication of the substandard quality of Israeli education? No wonder there is such a brain drain :)

YMedad said...

"Did you see the TBN adverts for the Beck events in Caesarea and Jerusalem?"

yes.

"Are you saying that Glenn Beck did not have an arrangement with TBN to televise his event?"

no.

"Are you saying that TBN is not missionizing in Israel?"

ah, here's the trick in arguing in this manner, like:

are you Jewish?
is Madoff Jewish?
did Madoff steal?
so, you stole too.

Yes, there are missionizing groups. Fight them, not someone who is not missionizing, announces Christian Zionists should not be missionaizing and puts on an event that was not a missionizing attempt and had so little true Christian content that it was almost embarassing and needed a former missionary to interpret for us but did have a powerful political message for hundreds of millions of people who support Israel and will press to have politicians and others mobilize for Israel. this event might even help save outr lives.

Oh, and in writing "We believe Jewish Israel's efforts over the years have borne fruit" as regards the way-less-than-hoped-for missionary content, that didn't materialize - "harmless", to be exact", your site's words - is so cool.

I won't be mean (as you have been to others) so I hope everyone who is one of your potential recruits reads that post of an example and waltzing backwards.

and "King of Kings" is also, btw, the Hebrew term for God. so it could go either way, no?

ellen said...

YMedad,

Nobody can effectively fight missionaries or curb Fundamentalist Christian influence in Israel if Jewish activists and leaders are afraid to recognize, and make efforts to correct problematic aspects inherent in a Jewish Christian alliance.

Jewish Israel is particularly focused on establishing a sense of awareness and accountability within the Jewish community; encouraging rabbinic leadership in Israel to institute halachic and ethical guidelines; and in assisting Israel’s law-makers in establishing effective counter-missionary legislation.

You yourself run a watchdog organization. I don't think it's fair to interpret monitoring a situation and asking critical questions as being mean.

Glenn Beck is a very articulate spokesperson for Israel, but he is also controversial in may ways.

It was he who, over several broadcasts, created the "Uber-Christian" hype about this very "Christian event" that may make some people "uncomfortable". It was he who spoke repeatedly and excitedly about the event taking place where jesus and Pontius Pilate was.

We noted the rhetoric and monitiored the situation. Too bad our very best Jewish activists like yourself didn't call him on it
and let him know that it was making Jews in Israel "uncomfortable".

You go back to our original post from early July where we suggested
" that those who are close to Mr. Beck respectfully convey to him that many Torah observant as well as secular Zionists are naturally uncomfortable with the Christian theological direction and focus of some of his oratory. Perhaps a more universal, and inclusive approach to his stand with Israel -with an emphasis on morality rather than religious faith - would be more appropriate and could heal, rather than exacerbate, political rifts and divisiveness?

That was real mean of us, huh?

Maybe he listened.

YMedad said...

Sure, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. No probelm.

Give himm the same? Read Barry Rubin's piece?

ellen said...

YMedad
Barry's article is good and if
political and Yesha-oriented activists want Mr. Beck to be their spokesperson and Mr. Beck wants to speak for us, then people like you need to sit with Beck and tell him that putting a Jew for Jesus up on stage - even at a Christian event - and cutting deals with blatant missionary networks just isn't going to wash in Israel.

This concept of, "the evangelicals are our best friends, don't ask questions" is causing damage to our people and to the integrity of Judaism and Eretz Yisrael.

So if Jewish activists want to use Gentile voices they will have to help them refine their presentation get them to roll up the Jesus that they wear on their sleeve.

chassida said...

Ahhhh! The Xtians are out to convert us! Help! Our religion can't withstand scrutiny or missionizing! Let's ban them, their books, and anything related to them. No, here's a better idea! Let's have lots of Ismaelites in the Knesset to stir a fifth column of enemies. Yes! That's it. That assures a brilliant JEWISH future for Israel. Give the Mohammedans Hevron, Judea, Samaria. Heck...give them East Jlem. It's a misnomer that Jews are "smart."

YMedad said...

Chassida, better. instead of using, with supervision and pre-seminar, volunteers from sincere Christian Zionist organizations at agricutlrual work, why not Arabs? They are so much btter at killing Jews.

and this, Ellen:- "just isn't going to wash in Israel". I wouldn't bet on that.

I repeat, stick to the evil missionaries but don't undermine every single effort by seeking connections and relationships that don't exist and making of them what they are not.

If you need a good speaker who can counter missionaries, I volunteer. Off and on, I started in the mid-60s and I can be of use.

Anonymous said...

I am not sure about the TBN show with Beck.....I am not sure if the correct message is validated. I only wish we would have had Billy Graham and Zolah Levitt to do that. But Zola is with the Lord now, and Billy is very old.

I would truly like to study the Korah, the 1st 5 books of the Old Testament. But, I think I understand somewhat already why you feel threatened.

King David wrote in Psalms Chapter 22 a full description of what Christ went through at the time of the cross. You cannot deny the miracles that took place when Jesus walked the earth.

Also Isaiah 53, is another full description of what Jesus went through for us.

It is said, He walked the earth but they did not know Him.

2 Corinthians 3:12 Paul (whom once was a persecuter of the Christian Jews as Saul) wrote "but their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless, when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I pray for this for all....

YMedad said...

Dear Anon. 18:54 -

Actually we can, or at least I can, deny the miracles for I do not believe in them. You are of a different religion, one Jews consider pagan. I cannot go into theology here but in short, as a Christian, you have an obligation to recognize Jews for what we are, not what developed, in error, at a specific period of time and to provide us assistance as a "foreign people". You have a lot to make up for. So please, leave us alone with your faith issues.

Chayma said...

anonymous

Also Isaiah 53, is another full description of what Jesus went through for us.

This is Paul's interpretation, as were the verses you wrote above. Prior to Paul of Tarsus, the followers of Jesus neither believed int his being a deity, nor that the laws were obselete. They were a Jewish sect, no different to say the followers of Shabtei Tzi, or the Lubavicher Rebbe or the other "Messiah" claimants.

The man is deity come to save humanity is something Paul of Tarsus created.

Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

Bart D. Ehrman
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060738170/ref=nosim/103-3247524-5003047?n=283155

Though himself schooled in evangelical literalism, Ehrman has come to regard his earlier faith in the inerrant inspiration of the Bible as misguided, given that the original texts have disappeared and that the extant texts available do not agree with one another.

YMedad said...

Dear Ms. Chayma,

I truly suggest you take your efforts somewhere else.

For us Jews reading this, I suggest a newly published book of the Rasha by Feldheim in Hebrew

ספר מאמרי אמונה from the late 13th century.

(When a certain Dominican monk, Raymond Martini, published two books, in which texts from the Talmud were misinterpreted with a view to inciting hate against the Jews, the RaSHBA immediately wrote a defense of Judaism, refuting the attacks of the monk)

Chayma said...

Dear Mr YMedad

My post was addressed to "anonymous", and it was no effort. Truly :)