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Thursday, January 31, 2013

Pope to get seat over the Tomb of King David

From Jewishisrael.com

Outgoing Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon is leaving his mark on Jerusalem. After years of negotiations with the Vatican over property and tax issues, it seems that Israel is about to formalize diplomatic relations with the "Holy See".

But there are disturbing reports that the Vatican will receive a degree of "control" and "an official seat" for the Pope in the Upper Room (Cenacle Shrine), which sits above the traditional Tomb of King David - a central part of the Diaspora Yeshiva grounds on Mount Zion.

Jewishisrael reviews the reports, some recent history, and gets reactions from the Diaspora Yeshiva and from the director of the Mt. Zion Redevelopment Project....more


Moriah said...

Sorry, no matter how good an Israeli politician seems, if they are G-dless they are clueless. They think King David's grave is similar to the Lincoln Memorial with no more reverence or importance. I had very nice Modern Orthodox people at my Shabbat table who said when mashiach comes all people will be able to worship how they want to in Israel!!!! I very politely disagreed. Maybe they haven't read Tanach. But we got in trouble for allowing the people we were commanded to drive out , stay. All the churches and mosques will be destroyed - all the alters and high places will be destroyed and their baal wlll pay with their lives..And so with the pope and his crappy seat.

Batya said...

Ellen, thank you so much for posting this on my blog, or our blog, since I really think your posts are crucially important.
There is something so dangerously sick in the Israeli mentality to treat our holiest and most important historic places so badly.

Anonymous said...

as a noahide, i am shocked. this is so mind boggling.so why did we leave xtianity? because we knew it was wrong and only israel and the tanach is One with Hashem, and is the light to all nations. we knew they are our teachers, our spiritual guides, whom Hashem gave to us. if an idoliser or one who wears an idol round his neck is allowed into such a holy place, why did we leave our idols behind and turn completely to the G-d of Israel? its all so so sad. all i can say is for some reason Hashem brought us out of idolatry, and may He ensure that the people whom He chose to be the light to all nations continue being so.

Shy Guy said...


1. No one in the US would think of removing US government's authority and control from the Lincoln Memorial. We Jews are more stupid than imaginable.

2. Chazal learn from Tanach that when the Mashiach comes, other religion's houses of worship will remain but their use will be solely to honor Hashem.

3. What kind of Jewish background do these guests of yours have, that they imagine that post-Mashiach leaves from for anything other than Hashem? Is anyone supposedly Torah observant teaching or promoting this?

10rainbow, why did you become an oved Hashem? To give the rest of us mussar!!! Obviously we need it.

ellen said...

Thanks. Remember you worked hard on this issue with me in the past as part of the Committee to Save Mount Zion back in 2005.

Leah, Maaleh Adumim said...

Mt Zion is important, but King David is not buried there. the "traditional" belief calling it "King David's tomb" is an anachronistic mistake. King David's Jerusalem was on the next hill over, and Mt Zion didn't become part of Jerusalem till much later.

on the other hand, this has symbolic significance, and Israel should not be forfeiting sovereignty over an important site, much less granting preference to one xian sect over another. it's not good politics.

as for the so-called "modern orthodox people" that Moriah quotes, I'd like to know what she means by that. in the US, "modern orthodox" is generally what we would call in Israel "dati leumi", i.e. observant but not chareidi. however, there are also some people who are not observant or knowledgeable about Judaism, but for various reasons prefer to belong to an orthodox shul rather than "conservative" or "reform". so such people would also call themselves "modern orthodox", but don't represent the bulk of modern orthodox Jews.

anyone who has read Tanach - even in English, even just the parts that we read as haftarot on Shabbat - as well as anyone who goes to shul and recites "Aleinu", would know that one of the main features of the time of mashiach is that everyone will recognize the truth of Hashem and the Torah.

Anonymous said...

Shy Guy, no , as a gentile i dont have to right to criticise any jew.
the jewish people have been through immense hardship. its sad all these things are happening.but in the end, the jewish people will win. and it written by your holy sages that the days before the arrival of the mosiach would be very difficult.
dont worry or be upset. Salvation will come to you all, and if we are saved, its on the jewish people's merits.i do the daily e lesson of R Yisrael Salanter. he said: the only worry that is permissible is to worry about being worried. Hashem never makes a mistake. He was right in choosing you all above all of us. Soon His Plan will unfold.

Shy Guy said...

10rainbow, G-d bless you.