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Official NO To Segregation on Egged Buses, At Least on Some of Them
That’s what this sign says.
Every passenger has the right to sit wherever he/she wants, except if it's a seat reserved for the handicapped. Abusing/threatening another passenger is a criminal offense.
14 comments:
Hadassa
said...
Shalom! The issue was handled so badly by so many people. It's a real shame. I honestly believe that if negotiations had been conducted differently the matter could have been resolved without an uproar.
Shalom! Shy Guy, what's wrong with separate seating lines as a CHOICE? In some areas I've heard hareidim wanted to start their own lines but couldn't because of an Egged monopoly. IMO the Hilul Hashem wasn't the desire for a stringency but rather the attempt to force a stringency on the general population, especially with violence.
Shalom! Shy Guy, that was the original plan, even for Egged. People seem to forget that. The deal the hareidim made with Egged was that on lines with enough passengers to allow for separate seating buses to run at almost the same time as regular buses, there would be separate seating buses at no extra expense for anyone. This what I mean by "issue" and "negotiations". At some point in the planning the original plan was forgotten, intentionally or not. Some lines ended up with separate seating only buses, which is wrong because forcing a stringency on others is wrong. As you stated, "one big Chilul Hashem" resulted.
This is public transportation, heavily subsidized with my tax money.
If I want to sit next to my wife or my sister or next to an absolute stranger of any gender, I don't want anyone telling me I can't for NO VALID HALACHIC REASON.
If someone wants to make up their own Torah, let them get their own Torah mobiles. If they can't afford them, let them get a job.
Not on my cheshbon!
The chilul hashem was the imposition of this idea in any shape or form on national public transportation. If they don't like it here, let them drink the waters of Monsey!
Hadassa, I have to agree with Shy on this. I also don't like the resulting lack of "midot," sensitivity to others in separate seating buses. Males who are healthy enough to stand don't offer seats to women who need to sit, because it's the "wrong section." I see a lot of chessed in regular buses. I have another bus post cooking in my mind.
Shalom! Shy Guy, I specifically stated that it wasn't supposed to cost anyone any more money. That was in fact a condition of the agreement. Why does everybody forgot certain facts? I've sat next to too many men that have made me feel uncomfortable, just because I was too tired to stand, to be against having a CHOICE of separate seating buses. Maybe you don't mind being pushed up against women on a crowded bus, but I hate being pushed up against men on a crowded bus. If I was traveling without my husband and I had a choice, I'd choose a separate seating bus every time, and I would never expect anyone to foot the bill for it. Batya, your opinion is exactly why a stringency should never be forced on someone.
I guess this is an Israeli issue. I can't really relate much:( Segregation on public transportation for any reason brings a knee jerk response. Images of Rosa Parks and blacks forced to the back of the bus.
Why can't the men (assuming it's the religious men) who can't sit next to women simply stand. That would seem an alternative for public transportation.
Public transportation should be for everyone. People can sit anywhere a seat is available.
BTW: was the part of that sign about violence being criminal really necessary? Is there violence over seating/segregated seating?
Keli Ata (and Batya in your 18:43 comment): For what it's worth, I don't see that the sign says anything about violence. It doesn't mention "alimut", it mentions "hatrada" -- "harassment" would be a more apt translation.
14 comments:
Shalom!
The issue was handled so badly by so many people. It's a real shame. I honestly believe that if negotiations had been conducted differently the matter could have been resolved without an uproar.
true
Issue? Negotiations? Matter?
This whole folly should never have been in the first place.
One big stupid Chilul Hashem from the get go.
Shalom!
Shy Guy, what's wrong with separate seating lines as a CHOICE? In some areas I've heard hareidim wanted to start their own lines but couldn't because of an Egged monopoly. IMO the Hilul Hashem wasn't the desire for a stringency but rather the attempt to force a stringency on the general population, especially with violence.
Hadassa, if you want to fund private transportation for such purposes at your expense, I haven't the slightest problem.
Otherwise, keep your "chumras" to yourself.
Shalom!
Shy Guy, that was the original plan, even for Egged. People seem to forget that. The deal the hareidim made with Egged was that on lines with enough passengers to allow for separate seating buses to run at almost the same time as regular buses, there would be separate seating buses at no extra expense for anyone. This what I mean by "issue" and "negotiations". At some point in the planning the original plan was forgotten, intentionally or not. Some lines ended up with separate seating only buses, which is wrong because forcing a stringency on others is wrong. As you stated, "one big Chilul Hashem" resulted.
This is public transportation, heavily subsidized with my tax money.
If I want to sit next to my wife or my sister or next to an absolute stranger of any gender, I don't want anyone telling me I can't for NO VALID HALACHIC REASON.
If someone wants to make up their own Torah, let them get their own Torah mobiles. If they can't afford them, let them get a job.
Not on my cheshbon!
The chilul hashem was the imposition of this idea in any shape or form on national public transportation. If they don't like it here, let them drink the waters of Monsey!
Hadassa, I have to agree with Shy on this. I also don't like the resulting lack of "midot," sensitivity to others in separate seating buses. Males who are healthy enough to stand don't offer seats to women who need to sit, because it's the "wrong section." I see a lot of chessed in regular buses.
I have another bus post cooking in my mind.
Shalom!
Shy Guy, I specifically stated that it wasn't supposed to cost anyone any more money. That was in fact a condition of the agreement. Why does everybody forgot certain facts? I've sat next to too many men that have made me feel uncomfortable, just because I was too tired to stand, to be against having a CHOICE of separate seating buses. Maybe you don't mind being pushed up against women on a crowded bus, but I hate being pushed up against men on a crowded bus. If I was traveling without my husband and I had a choice, I'd choose a separate seating bus every time, and I would never expect anyone to foot the bill for it.
Batya, your opinion is exactly why a stringency should never be forced on someone.
Hadassa, many times I've asked passengers to change their seats for that reason. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they give me a blank stare.
I guess this is an Israeli issue. I can't really relate much:( Segregation on public transportation for any reason brings a knee jerk response. Images of Rosa Parks and blacks forced to the back of the bus.
Why can't the men (assuming it's the religious men) who can't sit next to women simply stand. That would seem an alternative for public transportation.
Public transportation should be for everyone. People can sit anywhere a seat is available.
BTW: was the part of that sign about violence being criminal really necessary? Is there violence over seating/segregated seating?
Keli, for sure most of them should be gentlemen and stand, especially the young boys.
Violence is mentioned because people do get nasty.
Keli Ata (and Batya in your 18:43 comment): For what it's worth, I don't see that the sign says anything about violence. It doesn't mention "alimut", it mentions "hatrada" -- "harassment" would be a more apt translation.
Maoz, thanks, good point.
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