Wednesday, June 17, 2009

Different Cultures, Different Values, Different Understandings of Democracy and Honesty

The newscasts from Iran are frightening.

Naive American politicians think that as long as they organize elections in a violent, totalitarian country, the country has been "tamed."

Elections aren't the magic drug, not in Iran and not in Iraq.

Remember that the P.A. Pseudistinian Arabs voted for the terrorist group/party Hamas.

There won't be peace between us and the Arabs until the Arabs are ready and really want it. It's not up to Israel. Nothing we do will facilitate peace. It will take a number of generations until the Arabs change, and that's if they want to, and raise their children to want peace.


mlc2005 said...

Wow. Your comments are incredibly racist. If anybody ever thought to make such sweeping comments about jews, as a whole, you would roundly condemn them as anti-semetic. Basically what you are saying is that Arabs are inherently violent by nature, and are of lesser quality than jews (and by jews, you probably only mean jews who are religious like yourself). You are so blinded by hatred towards Arabs, not to mention Palestinians, it is so obvious, and I think it's a real shame that your supposed "spiritual" journey in Israel has lead you to this point. I feel sorry for you, and I feel scared knowing that there are a lot of other Israelis who feel the way you do.

Apparently your belief system has promoted hatred and arrogance in you, not love. Im sure you love your family and friends, but it takes a special type of person to love your enemies, which you obviously aren't capable of.

It's amazing how you don't catch the irony in writing about how the arabs are incapable of peace, while you, yourself, are promoting hate. Good luck to you.

Shiloh said...

mlc, there is no such thing as a palestian. They are nothing more then Jordanian Arabs who formed a politic means to destroy Israel and murder Jews. Your xtian 'love' is contrary to what the historical Jesus taught and that is to love your fellow Torah Observant Jew as yourself. Therefore the teaching does not apply to yourself. There will be peace only when we rid the land of Idoloters, like yourself. The problem is we don't stand up to the Arabs who want to kill us, and the xtians who want to destroy us with their loooove. As the historical Jesus said, take the beam out of your own eye before you try to take the speck out of ours. Don't feel sorry for us, your in for a very rude awakening. HaShem will continue to puff you up, setting you up for your final reward.

Batya said...

mlc, look at the pictures. They speak. You're lying to yourself if you think I'm a racist.

Thanks Shiloh. Mlc doesn't want to see the truth.

Shiloh said...

Sure, like many others. What can you do.

Batya said...

I just do my best.

mlc2005 said...

I noticed that no one bothered to address the incredibly important issue of the continuing acceptance of US billions, while at the same time demanding that Obama not suggest any policy options. Nevertheless, "Muse," obviously I don't know you personally, although I have kept up with your writings for years, and I made the racist comment in response to what you wrote about Arabs being inherently inferior to you and other Israeli-jews (presumably, as I said, relgious jews alone). If you are going to write political commentary, you need to be able to defend what you write with more than "I'm not a racist."

I care about this issue deeply, and wish that both you and others could pull away from the tit-for-tat for a few minutes and realize that it's doing nothing but breeding hatred and misery for your fellow human-beings.

If, "Muse," you share the same fews as "Shilo," who commented, I have absolutely no hope. Shilo's comment was frightening at its best, morally (not to mention psychologically) certifiable at worst.

Apparently in Shilo's world, Jesus told her to hate Arabs and anyone who is not a
"Torah observant Jew." If that's not religious fanaticism, I don't know what is. When it comes to people like Shilo, trying to have a reasonable debate is futile, because facts don't matter, other people don't matter, and narcissism masking as religious dogma wins the day.

I just wish that, concerning a topic as monumental as this (the safety and well being of your fellow citizens and human beings on this planet), you as a writer, Muse, could open up your heart and mind just a little.. I won't hold my breath.

And I will continue to wait for a response (come on Shilo, can't you think of something else totally insane to write) regarding the billions of dollars you and your government continue to take from the US, a country you claim should have no role in your country's life.... I wait.

Batya said...

mlc, I didn't say inferior, I said different. And that's the reality. I'm a pragmatist. And keeping in that pragmatic line, I'll continue saying that the aid is no more than coupons to shop in American "stores."

Hadassa said...

mlc, have you ever considered what percentage of the world's terrorists are Muslims, and what percentage of them are Arabs? What percentage are Jews? Have you ever thought about who sends suicide bombers into crowded civilian centers? When there's a natural disaster, anywhere in the world, who sends more teams to help, Israel or the Arab countries? Take into account the relative size and available resources of the two parties. Who has earned more Nobel Prizes (the ones for achievements that benefit all of humanity) Muslims/Arabs or Jews?
Concerning the "aid" from America, as muse said, it all goes back to American companies, and for that we're "rewarded" by constant pressure to give away parts of our land. And Israel still hosts America's safest bases in the Mid-east and gives her valuable military intelligence worth five times what the CIA does. That comes from a US politician.
As a final note, even as Sederot and the rest of the Negev have suffered from missile barrages, hundreds of truckloads of food and other supplies have streamed into Gaza, courtesy of the Israeli government. Has any other nation in the world done anything even remotely similar to that?

Shiloh said...

mlc, I gave you actual facts based on the oldest know hebrew and greek codex's. So where's your problem? Is it that you rely on a heavily redacted book that has changed a kosher Torah observant Jew into a pagan counterfeit lie.

You, like the xtians of old, refuse the fact that we won't accept anything to do with the big lie, then you slander and G-d forbid do worse because of it.

The historical Jesus said, in his time period, to love your fellow Torah observant Jew as yourself. Why, because he was only talking to Jews. He NEVER taught goyim anything. It was only until later on after he died and was buried in Armon haNatziv did his authentic Torah observant Jewish followers take his teachings to the goyim. It was in the year 135 that Gamliel II had to ban any teaching to do with him because the lie had begun to take hold and was used extensivly against Jews. He never mentioned anything about Arabs. By the way, I know them very well. They used only Hebrew Mattiyahu as his teachings and the Tanach as the Bible according to the early church historian Eusebuis. Again, you base your hatred and loshon hara towards us based on a lie and incredible misinformation.

Research the name Palestinian and see who it refers to originally. Research books by author Walid Shoebat for when the arabs invented the "people". Hint, June 4, 1967.

Get your facts straight first before you stick both feet in your mouth. You sure loooove us when we show the lies of the world that you believe in. Such a joke.

The Torah is the recipe for peace in the world. The historical Jesus told Jews to return to Torah. The reason there is such hatred is that the world invented replacement theologies to replace the Instruction Manual from G-d.

Again, take the plank out of your eye.

Shiloh said...

Keep your blood money. It is nothing in the big picture. I can't recall the exact percent of Israels GDP, but its low single digits. If Israel where allowed to trade with other countries without the US veto on them, they would surpass the control and blood money incredibly.

When we depend on a foreign power, we get punished. History prooves it over and over.

Again, get your facts straight.

mlc2005 said...

I know we can't keep going back and fourth forever (although apparently it is possible), I just wanted to make one more post.
Haddassa... I actually appreciated your post... I have been involved with this issue for a long time, and it's nice to have a discussion based on logical argument, versus just religious dogma (aka Shiloh). I understand your points.. In terms of achievement, there's no doubt that throughout history, Jews have been amazing. I never really thought of it as a contest, trying to compare it to others, as you have, but I understand your points. I hope that nobody got from my posts that I was trying to put down Jewish people; quite the opposite, Im trying to just say that we shouldn't put down any one entire ethnic group.
Yeah, Arabs are committing a lot of terrorist attacks these days.. A very good friend of mine was killed on 9/11. I was angry too, and for a while I was feeling like I too could hate all Arabs.

But I realized that there are religious extremists in all religions, and it doesn't mean that everyone in that entire ethnic group is bad. The violent terrorists are nut-jobs, pure and simple. They should be stopped, no doubt.

Anyway, sometimes I wonder why I bother, b/c I know Im not going to change the minds of the people who are reading this right wing stuff, but I hope that you can understand why it scares a lot of us to be reading comments like Shiloh's, who apparently has used religion to make herself feel special, better than others, and entitled. Only be nice "other Torah-observant Jews." How is that different from the attitude Arab's not accepting "infidels?" Both seem incredibly closed-minded and selfish.

Anyway, I hope that Obama is able to push ahead with his plan, as it seems to be in the best interest of humanity (I love Israel btw, and have been several times).

Finally, re: facts. I realize that Palestinian is a colonial era word; I actually don't think that's relevant. Okay, let's call them Jordanian Arabs; it's all semantics anyway. It doesn't take away from the suffering and forced displacement history. And it doesn't negate the fact that they are living under Israeli rules, regulations, and, as Sharon put it, 'occupation.'

US giving aid to Israel so we can get Israelis to shop? That's a new one. I'd like to see some in the settler movement out on the streets asking the govt to not accept the money. Then they'd be putting the money where their mouth is.

Hadassa said...

Shiloh, the GDP figure you're looking for is either 2 or 3 percent.
mlc, Palestine is derived from the Roman word for "land of the Philistines", Palaestinae. The Roman invaders wanted to erase all traces of Jewish anything from Israel and attempted to change the name of the country. Before the founding of the State of Israel Palestine was the most commonly used name for the country. The Arabs did not associate themselves with the name and were insulted when called "Palestinians". The Jews were the Palestinians then, and the "Jerusalem Post" was the "Palestine Post", etc. The Arabs did not call themselves Palestinians until the 1960's, when Arafat was leading the PLO. There is no "ancient Palestinian people". The Arabs in Gaza came mainly from Egypt, just over the border - although to be precise most if not all of the Sinai Peninsula is part of Israel. The Arabs living in Judea and Samaria came mainly from the bordering Arab regions - although Jordan is part of Israel.
I understand that you think that the "extremist" Muslims are not accurately representing their religion. They are. The Koran teaches that all infidels, dhimmis (non-Muslims) have inferior status and they must convert or die. Judaism, on the other hand, has a concept of righteous Gentiles. Non-Jews have a place even in the Holy Temple, the holiest place in the world. Ever see a non-Muslim get close to anything important in Mecca? What do Jewish extremists do that scares you so much? We build on our land. If the Arabs would make peace with us we wouldn't even ask them to leave.
I'll tell you something that might surprise you. When the Jews came to Gush Katif they did not displace a single Arab. The communities were built on the empty dunes. Muse and Shiloh know better than I, but I believe the same is true for Judea and Samaria. Jews built communities between the Arab cities and villages.

Shiloh said...

Thanks Hadassa, I knew the figure was very low.

Of course there are righteous gentiles, starting with the Bnei Noach. All I was doing was quoting accuratley what the historical Jew taught. His followers after his murder by the goyim, taught that the goyim to be righteous had to at least do the seven mitvot. Actually, in that time period of history, the goyim could not do business or socialize with Jews if they did not at least maintain a certain level of holiness. Just the facts.

Hadassa said...

Shiloh, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was pointing out a few important differences between Judaism and Islam for mlc.
The media has done a great disservice to the entire world by not presenting the facts about Islam.