Sunday, October 18, 2015

Half-Right Headline on Yahoo News

On Yahoo News:
Joseph's Tomb was badly damaged in the blaze-BBC
Joseph's Tomb: a sacred Jewish site on Palestinian land
At least they got the "sacred Jewish site" part right, but why do they insist it's "Palestinian land" sic? I think of our Land in terms of history, not present day administration. Today, now the PA- is in charge of order, but if Yahoo News is willing to accept that the Tomb is that of the Biblical Joseph, then they should also recognize the ancient Jewish presence in this part of the world.
For Jews, the tomb of Joseph, an Old Testament figure, is a pilgrimage site visited by Jewish settlers and ultra-orthodox faithful known as Haredi Jews.
The Old Testament holds that Joseph, son of Jacob and Rachel, was sold by jealous brothers and taken to Egypt, where he became a pharaoh's minister. Joseph is believed to have been buried well after his death in what is now Nablus, in the northern West Bank.
For Palestinians, the tomb is that of sheikh Yussef Dweikat, who died during the reign of the Ottoman Empire. Many historians support that account and estimate that the site was also sacred ground for Samaritans, a Jewish splinter sect. (Yahoo News)
Hundreds Of Jewish Faithful Pray At Joseph's Tomb In Nablus

The Jewish Bible and Jewish History predates, precedes Islamic history, and by mentioning the Samaritans who are an ancient off-shoot of the Jewish People, they also strengthen the Jewish tie to the holy site.

Joseph's reburial in the HolyLand is chronicled in the Bible. At the time of the Exodus his remains are removed from Egypt and brought them throughout the long forty year journey until they reached Shechem.
Exodus 13:19
יט  וַיִּקַּח מֹשֶׁה אֶת-עַצְמוֹת יוֹסֵף, עִמּוֹ:  כִּי הַשְׁבֵּעַ הִשְׁבִּיעַ אֶת-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, לֵאמֹר, פָּקֹד יִפְקֹד אֱלֹהִים אֶתְכֶם, וְהַעֲלִיתֶם אֶת-עַצְמֹתַי מִזֶּה אִתְּכֶם.19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him; for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying: 'God will surely remember you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.'

Joshua 24:32
לב  וְאֶת-עַצְמוֹת יוֹסֵף אֲשֶׁר-הֶעֱלוּ בְנֵי-יִשְׂרָאֵל מִמִּצְרַיִם, קָבְרוּ בִשְׁכֶם, בְּחֶלְקַת הַשָּׂדֶה אֲשֶׁר קָנָה יַעֲקֹב מֵאֵת בְּנֵי-חֲמוֹר אֲבִי-שְׁכֶם, בְּמֵאָה קְשִׂיטָה; וַיִּהְיוּ לִבְנֵי-יוֹסֵף, לְנַחֲלָה.32 And the bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up out of Egypt, buried they in Shechem, in the parcel of ground which Jacob bought of the sons of Hamor the father of Shechem for a hundred pieces of money; and they became the inheritance of the children of Joseph.

Remember that this Jewish Bible and all the narrative is included in the Christian one. The story is very clear and concise in these two verses. The Jewish connection to this Land predates that of Islam and Christianity, and there is no existing people in the area with a longer documented history than the Jewish People!


Anonymous said...

Kol haOlam negdeinu. Doesn't matter what religion, race, nation; this is the GoguMagog war against HKB'H, Jews, Torah and the Land.

Batya said...


Sammy Finkelman said...

>> For Palestinians, the tomb is that of sheikh Yussef Dweikat, who died during the reign of the Ottoman Empire. Many historians support that account and estimate that the site was also sacred ground for Samaritans,

How would it be both the tomb of Yussef Dweikat and a sacred ground for Samaritans?
Actually, Moslems used to say it was the tomb of Yoseph HaTzadik.

Now the question would be when was it identified - or how far back does the Mesorah go that this is the tomb of the Yoseph who was in Mitzraim?

Wikipedia says (indirectly) that it can't be Yussef Dweikat (or Dawiqat, Dwikat, or Dwekat) since he said to have lived during the Ottoman Empire - I can't get anything more specific except a statement that he was buried about two centuries ago (original source: apparently BBC) but the site was known long before that, except that claims have been made now that Dweikat lived in the Medieval period, or even in the 600s. The local Muslims are now claiming it is the burial site of this man named Dweikat, whom they apparently don't know anything about.

Josephus has been interpreted (by the 1911 edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica for example) as saying that Yoseph is buried in Hebron, but he doesn't actually say that. He says the other brothers were buried in Hebron and does not precisely say anything about Yoseph. It's definitely the same spot identified as Yoseph's tomb far back as an 1863 plan. It used to be out in the field, but buildings have been built around it.

Post-biblical records regarding the location of Joseph's Tomb at this site date from the beginning of the 4th-century AD.[7] The present structure, a small rectangular room with a cenotaph, dates from 1868, and is devoid of any trace of ancient building materials...Modern scholarship has yet to determine whether or not the present cenotaph is to be identified with the ancient biblical gravesite.[11] No Jewish or Christian sources prior to the 5th century mention the tomb, and the structure originally erected over it appears to have been built by the Samaritans, for whom it was probably a sacred site.[12]

There's more on the talk page:

So, the Arabs have taken to lying, as usual.

Of course, there is no GPS for a site known 1,500 years ago, but no way does this have anything to do with this Yussef Dweikat, who didn't live 1,400 years ago anyway. Moslems never believed or claimed this until recently, for obvious political reasons.

Daniel F. said...

Oh, so many things wrong - You are right in pointing out that it should not be called "Palestinian land" since there is nobody who can legitimately claim the name "Palestinian", there is no such country so there is certainly no such land. But accept for the moment that the PA (ok, it has a bad name, so I will use its initials) administers that area. Then they have the responsibility of protecting it. In reality here, they did the opposite. It was PA armed "security" people who roughed up the Breslov Jews who came to the site. I assume that the headline pointed out who administers the area to point out that they are responsible.

But it also calls the city "Nablus". The correct name is "Shechem" and we should be careful to use the right names and not help the Arabs delegitimize us.

And finally, to point out one thing in Sammy Finkelman's post, he says that the other brothers are buried in Hevron (according to his sources). We know that they were generally buried in their portion, so Dan is buried outside of Beit Shemesh, for example. We can identify the traditional burial sites for many of the brothers and they are all over the country.

Batya said...

Sammy, yes the muslims create whatever "history" they think will be advantageous to their agenda.
Daniel, so true. I don't think the Bible mentions the burials of the other brothers.

Sammy Finkelman said...

It was Josephus who said they were buried in Hebron. I wasn't saying he was correct.

Batya said...

Even he was a long time later. I think that if they had been, there would be some clear statement in the chumash.

Sammy Finkelman said...

I think Josephus got confused, or other people in his time were confused.

Batya said...


Sammy Finkelman said...

>> Sammy, yes the muslims create whatever "history" they think will be advantageous to their agenda.

Today the Executive Councl of UNESCO (58 members) votes on a proposal to declare the Western Wall an Islamic holy site (specifically, part of the Al Aksa mosque)

And somebody is going to say this whole thing that is going on wasn't planned months ago?

Sammy Finkelman said...

See also:,7340,L-4712189,00.html

The proposal was submitted by Algeria, Egypt, Kuwait, Morocco, Tunisia and the United Arab Emirates. (several of them well known moderates! It's the safest thing, to do apparently.)

The document also calls Jerusalem "the occupied capital of Palestine" and condemns Israel for calling on its citizens to bear arms, arguing this has made things worse.

It condemns Israel for continued excavations near the Temple Mount and the Old City, in opposition to previous UNESCO decisions, and for building a few things near the wall, like a cable car, an elevator, and "Beit Haliba".
It condemns "Israeli aggression and illegal measures taken against the freedom of worship and access of Muslim to al-Aqsa Mosque and Israel's attempts to break the status quo since 1967".

And condemns right wing Jewish extremists and calls on Israel to prevent provocations which violate the sanctity of the mosque

It condemns alleged violence by Israeli settlers and Jewish extremists against Palestinians, including children, intended to harm the character of Hebron.

It also declares the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb are part of Palestine
(and they are saying that Rachel's tomb is the grave of Bilal ibn Rabah, a companion of the Prophet Mohammed.) Although maybe not in that resolution.

Israel's Ambassador to UNESCO Carmel Shama Hacohen has said that he has suggested (satirically of course) "registering the Palestinianian culture of lies as an intangible world heritage site."

It is possible the vote may be postponed. It is likely to pass, of voted on, and then an attempt will be made to get the full membership of UNESCO to endorse it.