Tuesday, July 26, 2011

Why I'm A Member of Likud But Vote National Union

Mattot Arim is publicizing the importance of joining Likud and voting in its primaries which, barring the sorts of tricks the Party Leader (now Bibi Netanyahu) can pull, such as making agreements with would-be Likud MK's and shoving them into good numbers ahead of those the members vote for, decides on the order of MK candidates before elections.   I hope this is clear.

Joining, paying dues to Likud does not require one to vote for them in the elections.  We have secrecy in the voting booths.

The Likud is a very important party in the Israeli political spectrum.  It does have some of the best and worst of Israeli political figures.  It's large enough and gets enough votes so that young "unknowns" like Tzippi Hotobilli (however you spell it) can get into Knesset.  The downside is that the established leadership can make deals that make a farce out of the primary elections.

Personally, I prefer the Likud in the opposition where its Right wing patriotism reigns supreme.  In power, it becomes strongly Center-Left and is the only Israeli political party to destroy Jewish communities and withdraw from strategic Land, giving it to our enemies.  That's why ever since Likud's first Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, gave Egypt's Sadat the Sinai and destroyed a host of communities and Yamit, I vowed never to vote for them again.

I prefer a political party that isn't for sale and isn't afraid to be in the opposition without the perks of cabinet portfolios.  I vote National Union, Ha'Ichud HaLeumi, the party of Dr. Arie Eldad and Dr. Michael Ben-Ari.


Anonymous said...

I disagree.
First, in a way, that's at least dishonest.
Not illegal at all, but it doesn't look so much moral neither.
Then, even if you're not voting for them, you give them some benefits and advantages.
You even give them money for their campaign and leaders !

You're right, that it's a way of getting some good people in the Knesset, but while doing this, you actually help bibi looking better for Rightist and give him more power.
Because that is, so long that bibi and his friends are the core and the leadership of the likud.

Finally this is a disservice to your ideoloy (and mine BTW) and to the Ichud. Because if there was no way to get good MK through memberships in the likud, they would actually care much more and look for a much more honest party like the Ichud.
The Ichud Leumi has a great platform (not just a unique stance on Yosh) and is a party where the different factions work well together...

If most of Yosh inhabitants voted for Likud last time in order to get Feiglin, Hotobeli, Danon and others (didn't even work well) in the knesset, why not convince them to get them (and much more good politicians) through haichud ?


David Tzohar said...

The only way to make your vote count and have any effect on a right wing agenda is to vote for the Likud. After supporting religious parties for years (since 1970!) I finally decided not to waste my vote and instead vote for the Likud (BTW Risa too). We have not been disappointed Bibi has skillfully managed to walk the dplomatic tightrope, his performance in the US in May was nothing short of masterful. We consider Tzippi Hotobelli our personal representative in the Knesset. There is certainly no one in the Ichud who has accomplished as much as she has.
What has Ichud Leumi accomplished? Honestly dont you think that you wasted your vote?

Anonymous said...

David Tzohar,
you're right, the Likud accomplished a lot : the official freeze, the un-official one, the freeze of a part of Jerusalem, the selling of israeli-land to foreign, much less building than even Olmert authorized, and so on.

FYI, every one member of the Ichud has
himself been involved in more law than most of the others party (except Kadima, Likud and Beitenou).
They can vote freely and pushes without problem a pro-jewish agenda in the knesset, unlike Hotobeli who often has to vote according to Netanyahu, is limited to the knesset and is much disconnected with the public.
Unlike ichud leumi members, who have been on the ground building and helping people (Ketzeleh's history is incredible, nothing to do with Hotobeli)...

What I think is had more people voted for Ihud, we could have a much larger party (around a dozen of MK) all of them like Hotobeli and even better who wouldn't have to follow Netanyahu's rule.

Batya said...

a1, David and a2 (or are you one 1a?) I don't think it's good for the State of Israel to be without a strongly ideological Right wing party in Knesset. Lieberman's party isn't strictly Right, but that's another post. He did get lots of Right votes when he campaigned for them. They had been Bibi's for the taking, but Bibi campaigned Center.

David, I'm not happy with Bibi's performance, not at all. The building freeze (defacto and dejure) is terrible. He makes a great speech then turns it into a farce by saying that despite it all he's willing to "take risks for peace sic."

Anonymous said...

Yes I'm the same a1&a2&a3

IMO, beitenu isn't rightists,ideologically speaking. Even closer to kadima than likud !

That is, likud isn't quite so strong neither is really ideological (and I'm not sure it's still rightist).
I've followed a lot what happened in the knesset those last 2 years and very often the likudnikim have even vote much more like a centrist-leftist party than a rightist one.

So IMO, the Ichud has everything to become a big, strong, ideological rightist party. Even a political plateform and enough of israelis agreeing with it.
It just lack all those vote going to Netanyahou and Liberman for strategical and political reason (but not ideological).
It could be at least the third party in the Knesset.

Anonymous said...

Forgot to sign :
(really need to create an account somewhere)

in the vanguard said...

I'm sorry that I don't understand the Israeli political structure where a party can declare its platform on one side of the most important issues, then, once in power, it can finagle to the opposite spectrum, as write says, "the Likud in the opposition where its Right wing patriotism reigns supreme. In power, it becomes strongly Center-Left".

Pretty scary!

Batya said...

van, it is scary, but truth is that Bibi had made it clear before the elections that he was running Center, not Right.

Yes, Amihai (nice you have a name,) only NU is truly and unabashedly Right. That's why it gets my vote.

Anonymous said...

big problem with ichud: they are build to stay outside the political discourse and just criticize from the outside. this is a way to get nothing done and to feel that you are pure. this is why i would never vote for them, regardless of ideology.
lower case anon

Hadassa said...

It's better to be on the outside and do some good (laws passed, good hasbara etc.), than to be on the inside and do much harm, which is what the Likud has been doing.

Batya said...

a, NU has contributed much more out of the coalition than any MK in the coalition. Likud and coalition MK's are terribly restricted. That's what Hadassa explained. she's right

Anonymous said...

It's better to be in the inside and stop the Likud from continuing to tread on its own mandates than to be on the outside stomping your feet like wimpy eunuchs for another 63 years.

Once you've up-righted the Likud, you can then commence to command a coalition of loyal national parties and eventually push forward an agenda to have a truly Jewish candidate heading for the prime minister's seat.

But keep on making the left happy and stick to your tried and true principals, which will continue to divide and fail us all.

Batya said...

Shy, do you really believe you can break Bibi's control of Likud? Well, I disagree. I don't consider that a possibility.

Anonymous said...

You're right, Batya. With so many loyal Israelis like yourself all saying "never", it will indeed never be.

Do the math.

Hadassa said...

Shy Guy, Bibi and his cronies aren't mathematicians. They don't play by the rules of math, or anything else except politics, which change in the middle of the game.
The Likud has been a lost cause for decades.

Anonymous said...

Hadassa, the Likud has been a lost cause for one decade.

The opposition has been a lost cause for 6.

Do the math.

You are incorrect about how much and for how long and versus how many Likud party members and central committee members Bibi can keep on pulling his shtick.