tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post4126573345890742707..comments2024-03-27T16:27:03.093+02:00Comments on Shiloh Musings: Have I Been Mistaken for a Head of Insect-free Lettuce?Batyahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-26104808247604426522010-09-26T07:35:19.892+02:002010-09-26T07:35:19.892+02:00May Hashem grant all of you continued nachat from ...May Hashem grant all of you continued nachat from your children and may He return you home safely in the very near future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-22311975580290592712010-09-21T20:49:56.206+02:002010-09-21T20:49:56.206+02:00Larry:
K'far Darom and Gush Etzion fell in 19...Larry: <br />K'far Darom and Gush Etzion fell in 1948 and with G-d's help we reconquered them 19 years later in 1967. Hopefully it won't take as long to return to Gush Katif!Sara Layahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439958728139430485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-53464953991408903822010-09-21T18:20:17.584+02:002010-09-21T18:20:17.584+02:00Hadassa, I doubt there will ever be a guarantee re...Hadassa, I doubt there will ever be a guarantee regarding more disengagements. I see Bibi and the freeze (Obama), and I see continued weakness. And, to be fair, the Israeli public is confused. Still many people who believe that the only way to keep Israel Jewish is to withdraw from much of Yosh. I think they are short-sighted, but it is easier to seek compromise than to 'take on the world' for most people. <br /><br />Sara, sorry Neve Dekalim is gone. Maybe one day it will be rebuilt. I can't see it happening in our lifetimes.Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-70373445878111562782010-09-21T08:55:04.333+02:002010-09-21T08:55:04.333+02:00Like Hadassa, I will always consider Gush Katif to...Like Hadassa, I will always consider Gush Katif to be my home, and pray that one day in the not too distant future, I'll return - if not me, then my progeny. I was privileged to raise my family in beautiful Neve Dekalim where we lived, loved, laughed... and cried.<br /><br />Many (misguided) politicians consider truncating Yehuda, Shomron, and the Golan regions rendering urgency in increasing our population. Likewise the Bedouin are sprawling out in the Negev. Further, while there aren't Bedouin villages near Nitzan (halfway between Ashdod and Ashkelon), the Bedouin bring their sheep to graze in the nearby fields and nature reserve. <br /><br />Clearly wherever a Jew makes their home within the Land is an important contribution toward the reclamation, restoration, settlement, and conquest of Eretz Yisroel.Sara Layahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439958728139430485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-71412331358115219602010-09-21T07:22:25.015+02:002010-09-21T07:22:25.015+02:00All good points. You are from Kfar Darom? Looked l...All good points. You are from Kfar Darom? Looked like a beautiful place. Very sorry it is gone.Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-7820489542247673882010-09-21T00:41:38.346+02:002010-09-21T00:41:38.346+02:00Shalom!
Larry, I still call K'far Darom home a...Shalom!<br />Larry, I still call K'far Darom home and knowing that it's still part of Israel I know that someday, even if I don't merit returning, my descendants will merit rebuilding Gush Katif. What to do? If you don't live in Israel, aliya. If you do live in Israel, live where you'll make a difference: an outlying community - and not just in YoSh, Carmiel is having demographic problems too - or perhaps one of the groups bringing truly Jewish life to a "mixed city" (Yafo, Ramle, Lod etc.) is more suitable. Wherever one is, one can always do more. Education can do a lot to ensure that no Israeli government will ever dare remove Jews from their land.Hadassanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-85366163397205143732010-09-20T17:53:23.469+02:002010-09-20T17:53:23.469+02:00Hadassa, agreed; internal exile is a better descri...Hadassa, agreed; internal exile is a better description. For Katifers, Tel Aviv or Jerusalem were not home. They lived with the belief that their villages were as much Israel as anything else. Sharon/Kadima/Olmert (Bibi) made that belief an illusion. What I am thinking/hoping is that Israel was built by folks like the Sapersteins and the rest, and that the settlers will be recognized again as halutzim. But it is clear that the state is run by people who have 'gotten over all that'; the people who gravitate to national-level politics in any country are nearly always greedy and venal. What to do? What to do?Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-49172825967669126222010-09-20T13:15:18.085+02:002010-09-20T13:15:18.085+02:00None of the words seem to describe to me the horro...None of the words seem to describe to me the horror of that which the Government perpetrated on its own people. I would describe the actions taken against Gush Katif as 'Decimation', or even 'Dismemberment' of a viable healthy body.Anneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-51051599924675651702010-09-20T10:42:28.974+02:002010-09-20T10:42:28.974+02:00Shalom!
Larry, I specifically stated "intern...Shalom! <br />Larry, I specifically stated "internal exile" and I stated my reasons.Hadassanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-18831068449513244762010-09-19T18:45:56.427+02:002010-09-19T18:45:56.427+02:00The residents of Gush Katif and the other communit...The residents of Gush Katif and the other communities were uprooted. They planted themselves in these places with the support of the government and the majority of Israelis. Specifically, the gov't uprooted them in order to expel them. The expulsion was done to accomplish political aims, including the relieving of int'l pressure. And it was done to show the right wing who runs the country; also, as a warning. And there may have been other motives.<br /><br />The term 'exile' is an exaggeration, since that implies removal from a country/nation, and forced transfer to another country. What is clear is that many residents, especially those whose origins are in Western democracies, were shocked in part by the disregard for individual rights that might prevent such an act occurring in the US or elsewhere. I think it is this shock as much as the loss of home that made the event so traumatic, and it was this aspect that woke up some Israelis who might otherwise rationalize the act itself.Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-49521357882899905022010-09-16T19:34:38.296+02:002010-09-16T19:34:38.296+02:00UPHEAVED/UPHEAVAL may be better that Expulsion. Ba...UPHEAVED/UPHEAVAL may be better that Expulsion. Back when I was a kid, in school, I knew expulsion first-hand. Almost looked forward to it.in the vanguardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11796434751654291581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-77365144004209881522010-09-16T18:01:05.538+02:002010-09-16T18:01:05.538+02:00Thank you all for your contributions. This exchang...Thank you all for your contributions. This exchange has made it clear that the issue is subjective. While uprooting renders a poetic injustice, expulsion is a much stronger word with no innocent connotations. Gush Katif was ethnically cleansed of its Jewish residents. Let's call it what it was.<br /><br />Tzom kal and g'mar hatima tova!Sara Layahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439958728139430485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-83228570966595656902010-09-16T08:08:53.310+02:002010-09-16T08:08:53.310+02:00If the government uprooted the people of Gush Kati...If the government uprooted the people of Gush Katif then the government would have transferred and settled them into another part of Israel with their belongings and material wealth intact. But the government put them in hotel rooms – hotel rooms! for months and months of uncertainty and with no access to their belongings. That is not uprooting. It’s cruel and inhumane. It’s an expulsion. <br /><br />I love Israel, it's a beautiful land. I love the Jewish people but hate what they allowed the government to do. God bless!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-72745535133778716122010-09-16T05:04:38.030+02:002010-09-16T05:04:38.030+02:00Tentatively...
The word that comes to mind is ext...Tentatively...<br /><br />The word that comes to mind is exterminated. It implies violence and force. And, sadly, the attitude supporters of the expulsion.<br /><br />The people living in Gush Katif were nothing to them that they could rip them out of their communities by force.<br /><br />Maybe the term rape is better?Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-67867109230370617702010-09-16T00:34:14.262+02:002010-09-16T00:34:14.262+02:00Netivotgirl:
Evacuation - a person is evacuated fr...Netivotgirl:<br />Evacuation - a person is evacuated from their house, neighborhood, building for their own good usually from a natural cause such as fire, hurricane, earthquake, flooding. Once the disaster has subsided the evacuated can, depending on damage, return and commence repairs. <br /><br />Please take a minute to re-read the definitions of exile and expulsion provided in your comment. I think you'll agree an expulsion can't lead to an exile as the very definition of expulsion includes being exiled. Likewise, being exiled includes have been expelled.Sara Layahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439958728139430485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-33718912586545486642010-09-16T00:30:48.326+02:002010-09-16T00:30:48.326+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sara Layahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439958728139430485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-5502182152094065592010-09-15T22:55:09.979+02:002010-09-15T22:55:09.979+02:00Shalom!
Netivotgirl, I understand what you're ...Shalom!<br />Netivotgirl, I understand what you're thinking. I rarely use the term exile unless I'm engaged in a discussion/debate like we are here. I use expulsion because it's readily understood, although often not recieved well.<br />Food for thought: What is the first association when you hear the word "expulsion"? Is it school? Students are expelled when they do not follow the rules. Unless the punishment of expulsion has been unfairly given the expulsion is a legitimate act, so in order to correctly describe the expulsion from Gush Katif and the northern Shomron one would have to say "the illegal (or immoral) expulsion", which doesn't sound right at all, and is a bit long.Hadassanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-30178338597885792712010-09-15T22:44:29.686+02:002010-09-15T22:44:29.686+02:00Shalom!
Let's take a look at who uses which te...Shalom!<br />Let's take a look at who uses which term. The left-wing favors the official Disengagement or withdrawal, but does sometimes use the term uprooting. The term expulsion is reserved for illegal foreign workers and their children. The "right-wing" that believes that anything that the Israeli government does is holy favors Disengagement or uprooting; withdrawal isn't used much in any right-wing camp. The term expulsion is rarely used by the soldier-hugging types, not in Hebrew and not in English. The kind of right-wingers that didn't or wouldn't dance with soldiers who came to force them from their homes insist on "expulsion". Doesn't that tell you something?<br />I live in the Shomron (Samaria) now and have for almost four years. I read many YOSH (Judea and Samaria) publications. It worries me very much how infrequently the term "gerush" is used. The same wishy-washy statist "leaders" that didn't succeed in blocking the internal exile of 25 communities aren't even speaking strongly now.<br />It is precisely because my roots are in Gush Katif that I oppose using the poetic term uprooting to describe how 25 communities were exiled.Hadassanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-82800215574129414472010-09-15T22:27:27.873+02:002010-09-15T22:27:27.873+02:00I read the suggestion of using "put into exi...I read the suggestion of using "put into exile" as opposed to "having gone through expulsion." <br /><br />Somehow, exile (wordweb: expel from a country.) feels more sanitized than expulsion (wordweb: the act of expelling or projecting or ejecting; squeezing out by applying pressure.) <br /><br />My gut feeling is that there was an expulsion which led to an exile. Words like evacuate and uproot seem to me inadequate describe the horror Sara Layla lived through. Does this make sense?Netivotgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00746343586043134996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-79374628090746585232010-09-15T21:15:19.540+02:002010-09-15T21:15:19.540+02:00Well, they were certainly inquisited! :)Well, they were certainly inquisited! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-14574678051246096432010-09-15T19:47:16.962+02:002010-09-15T19:47:16.962+02:00in the vanguard:
I am a Gush Katifer and maintain ...in the vanguard:<br />I am a Gush Katifer and maintain uprooting is not the word of choice for reasons presented in my article. <br /><br />Let's take a poll. <br />To All readers of this blog posting. Please answer these two questions: <br />Were the Jews uprooted from Spain in 1492 or were the Jews expelled from Spain in 1492? And I caution you that many, many generations of Jews lived in Spain prior to the ____________________<br />(uprooting or expulsion)Sara Layahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439958728139430485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-8253413366522267382010-09-15T19:21:41.832+02:002010-09-15T19:21:41.832+02:00If you, Sara Leah, have been UPROOTED from Gush Ka...If you, Sara Leah, have been UPROOTED from Gush Katif, you're taking it too lightly - is my impression.<br /><br />Uprooting means removing roots. Many at Gush Katif were of the third generation there. That's roots. And uprooting these poor people, like ripping out a tree from its earth, is horrible. Even a severe sin! It's not a coincidence "man is a tree", as the Torah says - explicitly.<br /><br />I think the term applies perfectly, despite the original thesis of this post.in the vanguardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11796434751654291581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-12113248440387330332010-09-15T19:16:31.055+02:002010-09-15T19:16:31.055+02:00If you don't like "Judenrein", perha...If you don't like <i>"Judenrein"</i>, perhaps you'll settle for <i>"Churban"</i>, which is often used with regard to Gush Katif.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-50069416159872002322010-09-15T19:01:54.056+02:002010-09-15T19:01:54.056+02:00Hats off to A7 (Israel National News)!
Reported t...Hats off to A7 (Israel National News)! <br />Reported today: <br />"Beduin Suspected of Uprooting Thousands of Trees"<br /> <br />Now that article heading properly uses the word uprooting!<br /><br />www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/194180Sara Layahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439958728139430485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7040911.post-25915054456560311712010-09-15T19:00:57.483+02:002010-09-15T19:00:57.483+02:00Nothing is uprooted 'gently' and when spea...Nothing is uprooted 'gently' and when speaking about people being uprooted from their land, it is a pretty violent metaphorical term. This is not to say the word is 'poetic' - it isn't - it is a very graphic term for forcedly removing people from their land. No one is calling you a lettuce, but the term does seem to signify you were once part of a land of which you are no longer a part. I frankly don't see it as soft-soaping what happened.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10237635155697029987noreply@blogger.com