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Thursday, December 19, 2013

The Truly Torah Observant Defend Jews in All Ways Including in the IDF

I don't like using the American term "Orthodox Jew" to describe myself.  I do my best to be a Torah observant Jew, following G-d's commandments.  The more I learn Torah and Tanach, Bible the cleared it seems to me that G-d wants us to "do it all."

We are supposed to be the farmers and fighters and factory workers.

We are not supposed to rely on foreign or non-Jewish labor or technology.

King David was a great warrior, leader and politician. His son King Solomon was wise and learned all of the skills of his time.  Things started going downhill pretty quickly when King Solomon married all those foreign women and made forbidden treaties which included giving away cities.  He got too involved in technology and removed himself from the common man.

There's nothing in our Biblical History to give the idea that we're supposed to have a separate society of Torah learners who allow others to battle for our Jewish People and Jewish G-d given Land.  There's even a clear message from G-d to the tribes that chose to live on the Eastern Bank of the Jordan that they must be available to fight with and for their brothers, fellow Jews.

It's Christians and Eastern religions that consider weapons of war to be forbidden for "men of the cloth." The IDF and the State of Israel would have been so much better and more Jewish if instead of making that deferment agreement with Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, the chareidi rabbis would have insisted on joining the IDF in a framework similar to todays Nachal Charedi.

Photo Credit
Davka, just a few short years after the establishment of the Nachal Chareidi, it's already considered one of the best units in the army and recently won the IDF Chief of Staff Prize.
Nahal Hareidi (Netzach Yehuda), the IDF's Hareidi-religious combat brigade, has made IDF history by winning the Chief of Staff's Prize for the first time. The brigade is also showing a sharp increase in enlistment, despite the ongoing political tension over haredi IDF service.The prestigious prize was awarded for the unit's extraordinary achievements and operational creativity, and will be officially bestowed in the coming weeks at a ceremony for the brigade's soldiers.Recognition for the unit's outstanding performance was decided following numerous IDF inspections, which focused on several categories, foremost among them operational quality.Nahal Hareidi has won two prizes in recent weeks. Along with the IDF Department of Technology and Logistics' Award, it was recognized with the GOC Army Headquarters Safety Award.The unit is also nominated for the Education Award, along with an award in Excellence in Maintaining Sector Security, issued by the Paratroop Command and Chief Infantry Officer.
Army service combined with Torah observance is certainly possible.  Many Torah observant Jews serve successfully in the army, reinforcing their faith and also influencing others.


Anonymous said...

Its no mitzvah to fight for the erev rav. If you choose to do so, then so be it. Comparing David HaMelech, a Tzaddik, to the current atheist regime is laughable. Don't condemn all of the yeshiva students for not bowing to the erev rav.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Batya. I am Noahide and I agree with what you say.
Now to Anonymous. I do not think Batya meant that Jews have to fight for erev rav. But to fight for themselves, to protect the Holy Land against the erev rav.
If I understood what she said, then that is right. All Jews should be ready to protect the land given to them by Hashem.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous #1, I agree with you also. The State of Israel is a creation of the Erev Rav, which I feel were/are the conduits to returning home to Eretz Yisrael. This was probably the only way we could have returned as a nation. H' is using them for this purpose. Of course, we also dare not compare in any way the government of today's State, made up of the Erev Rav, to King David, c'v. I agree with Batya that King Solomon was in no way like his father in that his life was the antithesis of his father's. He was born into the good life and even with all his wisdom, power eventually gets to someone's ego and wisdom flees. Believe because of the sin of bringing in all the foreign women and the trades with the nations brought the punishment of the division of the kingdom. We know that Hashem does not take lightly our relying on any nation nor anyone, except relying on HIM. Afraid that it might not be so until the coming of Moshiach. As far as chareidim opposing the draft and having anything to do with this regime, they are right. The leaders knew even at the time of the creation of the state what the goals and intentions of the Erev Rav were. Their goal is the deJudaization of Israel which we have seen progress in lightening speed since Oslo, and especially after the last election. The perfect Israel would be as Batya writes here, but then we would need a truly Jewish government. As long as the Erev Rav rule (as foretold by chazal that it will be so at the end of days until the coming of Moshiach)we are going through a difficult period of chevlai Moshiach, which will, hopefully, soon usher in the Geulah. May it be sooner than we can imagine.

Batya Medad said...

a1 and a2, you don't have the guts to admit who you are, and you're writing terrible things about people who were great tzaddikiim risking their lives for a Jewish Nation. You are not truly G-d loving Torah observant people. Davka in the naviim (prophets) they talk of the return and national teshuva as what the early Zionists did. And I didn't say that our modern politicians are like King David. Many times I've written that they have the fatal flaw of King Saul.

The Rabbis, peers of Ben-Gurion were supposed to have fought to infiltrate and Judaize all aspects of the State of Israel and not hide in ghettos.

Rainbow, they are hopeless.

Shy Guy said...

Foolish, childish "Erev Rav" comments!

Hashem has done amazing miracles to the point where the majority of Am Yisrael are back in Eretz Yisrael (big halachic implications there).

Those of us who are not "Erev Rav" members (How do you determine this? Do you have a DNA kit? Is Avram Burg a descendant of the "Erev Rav"? What about his parents, who were Shomer Torah Umitvot Jews every day of their lives?) need to defend ourselves, whether from the enemy without or within.

But we're not going to get anywhere if we don't start flexing our muscles and demanding things on our terms. And you can't do that if you have 3 people representing you rather than 30,000 or 300,000.

If the "Erev Rav's" goals are to de-Judaize us, how are you helping by hiding in your caves rather than coming out to stand against them and proclaim that the anti-Jewish policies of the secular Zionists will not continue to pass without a fight?

Cowards! The same kind that died at the hands of the Greeks while their brothers, the Maccabees, went out and confronted the enemy.

Narishkeit, the whole lot of you!

yosef said...

While I agree that it's a mitzva to serve in the IDF as we're in a situation of milchemet mitzva over the Land of Israel can we force mitzva observance? The IDF is the last bastion of socialism in Israel ("people's army" including the draft of women). All western countries have changed to a professional army. Over 80% of our soldiers and nearly all women are "jobniks" who contibute nothing to defense. Such a waste of money and human potential. A professional army will be vastly more efficient, more motivated, provide better salary/benefits, reduce Chareidi friction, reduce the high suicide rate in the IDF, save money, reduce yerida,and allow the vast majority of our young people to be productive citizens (working, learning professions, or university studies). It's a win - win.

Batya Medad said...

Shy, we're basically on the same page here. Read my latest article.

Yosef, not forcing mitzvah observance just the personal example. And we aren't just some other country. We are the Jewish Nation and must not follow their example of "professional army." It is against G-d's commandment.

Anonymous said...

Batya, what bad thing did I say?

Having no guts, because I post as anon, why give your comment place that choice?
I do not have google or any of the rest.

I agreed with what you wrote.

Perhaps I will not comment again.

Anonymous said...

O, I forgot to add , I was the a. 2

Sorry for offending you, but I do not think I did.


yosef said...

"against G-d's commandment"? Where in the Torah is this written? Certainly the Torah doesn't advocate drafting Jewish men for 3 years at slave wages to push a broom, open gates, serve coffee, or learn computer programing, teach in schools,run a radio station, and other vital defense activities. And certainly the Torah doesn't allow for women in the military. And certainly today's IDF is NOT fighting a milchemet mitzva. As we're not a Torah state yet and the IDF isn't fighting in a Torah way, we should have an IDF that is as strong and economically efficient as possible - ie a professional army. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. BTW wwith our draft of men and women we join the ranks of Cuba, North Korea, Lybia and a few other paradigms of countries to emulate.

Shy Guy said...

Yosef, I agree with you about a professional volunteer army.

Regarding whether there is a Milchemet Mitzvah or not, when it comes to defending ourselves against the Arabs, what is the question?!

As for other things the IDF has been up to in recent years against our people, then there's another mitzvah of Kiddush Hashem by refusing to perform a Chilul Hashem.

In the meantime, an appropriate musical interlude.

Batya Medad said...

Yosef, Shy, what do you suggest? Do you want to hire Arabs for the "menial tasks?"
Get real!
Every job is important and should be valued. If you don't value the dishwasher and floor scrubber, then you are wrong.

Batya Medad said...

a, please make yourself a name, like Shy did, so I feel like I'm responding to someone I can "recognize."

Anonymous said...

This is A #1
My name is Yisrael Tzion.
It does not take guts to post a name on a comment board. To accommodate you I have now done so, but you still have no idea who I really am. What terrible things did I say about the Tzaddikim? I defended a Tzaddik. You then accuse me of not being Torah observant or loving HaShem because I disagreed with you regarding forced military service? I don't see the connection? I did not condemn those that choose to serve in the IDF, I just made it clear who their masters are. Will those same Torah observant Jews do their masters bidding and up root you and every other Jew in the Shomron when they are ordered to do so? Gush Katif 2 is on the way if Kerry and the current regime get their way. Will you still praise the IDF then? May the Moshiach rescue us from the IDF. Blessings to you and yours and Shabbat Shalom.

Anonymous said...

To Shy: We do understand who the Erev Rav are. They have been described to us by our Sages of old (Chazal). At the end of days, they will be the ones in control of the government in Israel. Chazal explains how we will have returned back to EY but it will be under their rule, but at the very end, they will have complete control. The Erev Rav are those jews who are usually of wealth and seek positions of power. The sages, even the GR'A, Malbin, tell us that most of the rabbinic world at this stage of history will also be made up of the ErevRav and that is why we hear things from Orthodox rabbis which make no sense and go against all our mesorah. There was a small book even written about them titled 'The Erev Rav, 3000 Years of Treachery'. If you can get hold of that, it's worthwhile reading, written by Rabbi Salomon. There's more to write about but would take too long. I think Rabbi Pinchus Winston has written about them. raizy

Batya Medad said...

Yisrael Tzion, nice name,
I firmly believe that if the chareidim had insisted on participating in the IDF from day one, just like they did in the pre-State underground, demanding suitable Shabbat, Kashrut etc, we would have a better more Jewish country and army today.
It's too easy to complain from the outside as an observer. The great Kiddush Hashem would have been to help build a more Jewish country and not leave it to those lacking strong JEwish and Torah identity.

Shy Guy said...

Yosef, Shy, what do you suggest? Do you want to hire Arabs for the "menial tasks?"
Get real!


In a professional army, the professionals also get down and dirty.

In addition, the army would outsource many of the "menial tasks". This isn't even news.

I see you haven't been following the Knesset forums on this subject. A professional army would solve more problems than our current army is causing - in all realms.

Batya Medad said...

Outsource, those jobs will go to Arabs, security an educational problem.
We are not the USA. I don't care what other countries do.

Shy Guy said...

No, Batya. Security is security.

And if you insist, the professionals will do everything.

And it doesn't have to be small. It will certainly not be the size of the bloated behemoth we have today.

And if there aren't enough volunteers, a draft would kick in to fill up the missing.

But only those qualified would be taken.

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